Tyler speaks out
11-24-04, 06:22 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Devil
Through all of this, I still can't believe that the guy's name is Dick Pound.
I'm curious. Assuming Tyler's innocence, how many of you believe 1) an honest mistake caused his positive test results or 2) someone's dark motives are behind a conspiracy to push Tyler out (and/or achieve some other consequence though I don't know what that'd be)?
11-24-04, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GingerPrince
Not to start an argument, but how do you know that this lie is in fact the correct version of events? Have you read something I haven't? To me, this just emphasises the point that they need to act quickly to end speculation about what occured. If the procedures in the drug testing have not been followed and the testers have lied to cover themselves then it casts a huge shadow on all tests that have been conducted and throws the whole system into more doubt which would be an extremely bad thing to happen in my view. Why has there been no official statement? How can the test results be "Not Sure" when they should be Positive or Negative?
Have you read this:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...hamilton_medal
Every report up to this day indicated that Tyler's B sample was "accidentally" frozen. This is the first report that it was frozen because the lab had decided Tyler's A sample was negative.
Coincidentally, it was during the time that the external review committee was meeting that Tyler tested positive in Spain. They may have known the results of that test before they ended their deliberations on Sept 16.
11-24-04, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by don d.
This is not entirely accurate. ...edit...That was the lie.
Please don't make this stuff up if you don't know. You damage someones reputation with irresponsible speculation.
Please don't make this stuff up if you don't know. You damage someones reputation with irresponsible speculation.
OK Tyler, going by what you and Phonak first said, the first test was positive but the second sample test "would be negative." Then you changed that to the first test was positive, the second sample is inconclusive, or untestable. Now you say the first sample is negative, the second indeterminable, the third and fourth samples inaccurate and aren't even "test results". Why the scare brackets?
Applying Indian Larry's advice, you must be lying...and yet you call someone (who?) on the Olympic committee a lier?
Your statement is deceptive. Deception is one of the words used to define lying. Another is to give the wrong impression.
The words in your statement do more to condemn you than convince me.
11-24-04, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by don d.
How do you know this is a lie? Do you know what the other two possibilities are that he is referring to? Please post them if you do. Do you know in fact that there are not two other possibilities that the test results could be? If you do, then could you please explain to us why there could not be two other possibilities.
If you cannot, you're insinuation that he is a liar is groundless on this charge.
To me! And how can the words, "Doesn't that sound odd?" be read as a lie? That is a query, an interogative.
Livelihood CAN be eliminated with an innacurate test. This is not a lie. This is a statement of fact.
Let me see if I have this straight...you are saying that because Tyler is saying his character has been attacked, that is an attack by him on anothers character?
Any accusation made against an individual is an attack on that individuals character. It is for this reason that accusations must be made only with cause and they must be provable in a court of law. Tyler is calling the accusations what they are, and he is forcing the accusers to prove the validity of their accusations. He is not attacking anyone's character by calling something what it is.
Your statements have a similar ring to Smoothie 10-4's staements in his thread, "Look what Tyler started..." where 10-4 implied that because Tyler was defending himself, that was evidence of his guilt.
People are entitled to a defense, no matter what rules they agree to before hand. Have you ever heard of a social contract? If one breaks that contract, that doesn't mean one isn't entitled to a vigorous defense,
unless of course one is a fascist or lives in a fascist state. 
If you cannot, you're insinuation that he is a liar is groundless on this charge.
To me! And how can the words, "Doesn't that sound odd?" be read as a lie? That is a query, an interogative.
Livelihood CAN be eliminated with an innacurate test. This is not a lie. This is a statement of fact.
Let me see if I have this straight...you are saying that because Tyler is saying his character has been attacked, that is an attack by him on anothers character?
Any accusation made against an individual is an attack on that individuals character. It is for this reason that accusations must be made only with cause and they must be provable in a court of law. Tyler is calling the accusations what they are, and he is forcing the accusers to prove the validity of their accusations. He is not attacking anyone's character by calling something what it is.
Your statements have a similar ring to Smoothie 10-4's staements in his thread, "Look what Tyler started..." where 10-4 implied that because Tyler was defending himself, that was evidence of his guilt.
People are entitled to a defense, no matter what rules they agree to before hand. Have you ever heard of a social contract? If one breaks that contract, that doesn't mean one isn't entitled to a vigorous defense,
unless of course one is a fascist or lives in a fascist state. My post regarding "Look what Tyler has started" was not implying that Tyler defending himself was evidence of guilt. The post was showing that questioning the testing procedure, and the tests accuracy is now the chosen defense among dopers. Long gone are the days of "It's medicine for my dog, or my mother in law, or The French are framing Spanish Cycling, or someone spiked my drink" You had a guy who was rumored to be doping, got caught for EPO, and tried to use the same defense as Tyler. Despite the test for EPO having been well established, and very straight forward. I wanna hear more about Tylers Surgical intervention that he mentioned earlier... What happened to that alibi?
And Don d., as far as me having an objective view in life, You don't know a damn thing about me, what I do, how I feel, or what I know.... but I will tell you this......I hope you get hit by a car....
Last edited by Smoothie104; 11-24-04 at 09:54 PM.
11-24-04, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Devil
Through all of this, I still can't believe that the guy's name is Dick Pound.
Will you stop with the eponymy?!?
Give my your address...I'm sending you an REM CD full of eponymous songs!
Last edited by VintageSteve; 11-25-04 at 12:05 AM.
11-24-04, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by VintageSteve
OK Tyler, going by what you and Phonak first said, the first test was positive but the second sample test "would be negative." Then you changed that to the first test was positive, the second sample is inconclusive, or untestable. Now you say the first sample is negative, the second indeterminable, the third and fourth samples inaccurate and aren't even "test results".
Why the scare brackets?
Applying Indian Larry's advice, you must be lying...and yet you call someone (who?) on the Olympic committee a lier?
Your statement is deceptive. Deception is one of the words used to define lying. Another is to give the wrong impression.
The words in your statement do more to condemn you than convince me.
Your statement is deceptive. Deception is one of the words used to define lying. Another is to give the wrong impression.
The words in your statement do more to condemn you than convince me.
Last edited by don d.; 11-24-04 at 10:09 PM.
11-24-04, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoothie104
And Don d., as far as me having an objective view in life, You don't know a damn thing about me, what I do, how I feel, or what I know.... but I will tell you this......I hope you get hit by a car....
11-24-04, 10:01 PM
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I could have said Truck.....
11-24-04, 10:17 PM
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I hope all of you are hit by cars, trucks, and those annoying little mini Coopers. Man, those things blow.
As far as Tyler's innocence or guilt goes - whatever. He's tested positive twice, and there's enough confusion going around to make me stand off from saying he's guilty or innocent just yet.
What I do know is that the fanaticism with which the Tyler Hamilton fanboys defend him/attack people who say he's guilty is rather unfortunate. Between Tyler having Down Syndrom and Phonak being the Illuminati of the cycling world, I think I've had enough for now. I'd rather wait for the details to come out then sit on my ass and speculate with a bunch of people on the internet.
No offense, guys.
Well, maybe except Smoothie104. What a jackass that guy is.
As far as Tyler's innocence or guilt goes - whatever. He's tested positive twice, and there's enough confusion going around to make me stand off from saying he's guilty or innocent just yet.
What I do know is that the fanaticism with which the Tyler Hamilton fanboys defend him/attack people who say he's guilty is rather unfortunate. Between Tyler having Down Syndrom and Phonak being the Illuminati of the cycling world, I think I've had enough for now. I'd rather wait for the details to come out then sit on my ass and speculate with a bunch of people on the internet.
No offense, guys.
Well, maybe except Smoothie104. What a jackass that guy is.
11-24-04, 10:23 PM
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Why thank you!
11-24-04, 10:37 PM
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I remember! btw, hows the grappling going?
11-24-04, 10:40 PM
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Just fine. I actually just won the advanced division at the North American Grappling Association championships (no-gi), next year I'd like to try and be invited to the Abu Dhabi North American trials, win that and then compete against the best in the world. I'm not on Margolis' level yet.. but give me time.
11-24-04, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GingerPrince
How can the test results be "Not Sure" when they should be Positive or Negative?
These are mathematically continuous quantitative data values, not discrete binary qualitative data. It's in part a matter of trying to determine if grey is closer to black or closer to white.
11-24-04, 11:30 PM
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From don d....edit...
What is a scare bracket?
What is a scare bracket?
I meant scare quotes..."test results". In other words, why are they in scare quotes, saying I (Tyler) can't even call them test results, so I'm putting these around the words.
11-24-04, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hockey
What about the DNA test? Shouldn't an accused athlete at least have the opportunity to question the validity of the original tests?
Hockey
Hockey
If Tyler is doping, at least 90% of the blood is his own. If he's not doping, an even higher percentage of the blood is his own.
The majority population for every antigen should match the Tylers phenotype.
If not-the blood came from someone else.
If so, then its Tylers blood or someone that matches his antigen phenotype (and this guy could become Tyler's undetectible donor
).If there is a match, then a DNA test could be used to remove the last trace of doubt.
11-25-04, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Devil
Just fine. I actually just won the advanced division at the North American Grappling Association championships (no-gi), next year I'd like to try and be invited to the Abu Dhabi North American trials, win that and then compete against the best in the world. I'm not on Margolis' level yet.. but give me time.
Can you guys get a grip on yourselves...
like Dick Pound?!?
11-25-04, 12:18 AM
#43
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How much longer can this go on before the mods make this whole thread go bye-bye?
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11-25-04, 12:18 AM
#44
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Oh, for the record, and on topic...I think Tyler makes some good points.
I hope he's telling the truth.
I hope he's telling the truth.
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11-25-04, 07:53 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by regularguy
How much longer can this go on before the mods make this whole thread go bye-bye?
Lets back off on the insults, death threats etc. ok?
and for grappling? isn't there a wrestlers_Forum somewhere?
Marty
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11-25-04, 08:12 PM
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How bout this for an arguement (or a conspiracy theory) The original test at the Olympics was deemed negative and then deemed positive after a "review." With the B sample being destroyed, per procedure, the IOC had no choice but to go ahead and let Tyler keep the medal. This had to be a bad hit to their ego. There is also a lot of sour grapes in a lot of people's minds in Europe because of the recent doping allegations against Lance. What if, in order to save face, IOC got up with UCI and said "Hey...since we can't get Lance for doping and we couldn't make the charges stick against Tyler at the Olympics...lets get Tyler at the Vuelta. He's an American too and it would be just as good. You go switch the blood samples and we'll rule him positive at the Vuelta." Resoning...Everyone likes to see a champion fail but Lance is almost untouchable. The next best choice, arguably, is Tyler. This might explain why a DNA test won't be done....because UCI knows it isn't Tyler's blood. Just throwing that out there for all you conspiracy theorists....
11-25-04, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lotek
Not much longer if it continues to break down as much as it is.
Lets back off on the insults, death threats etc. ok?
and for grappling? isn't there a wrestlers_Forum somewhere?
Marty
Lets back off on the insults, death threats etc. ok?
and for grappling? isn't there a wrestlers_Forum somewhere?
Marty
11-25-04, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by slone130
How bout this for an arguement (or a conspiracy theory) The original test at the Olympics was deemed negative and then deemed positive after a "review." With the B sample being destroyed, per procedure, the IOC had no choice but to go ahead and let Tyler keep the medal. This had to be a bad hit to their ego. There is also a lot of sour grapes in a lot of people's minds in Europe because of the recent doping allegations against Lance. What if, in order to save face, IOC got up with UCI and said "Hey...since we can't get Lance for doping and we couldn't make the charges stick against Tyler at the Olympics...lets get Tyler at the Vuelta. He's an American too and it would be just as good. You go switch the blood samples and we'll rule him positive at the Vuelta." Resoning...Everyone likes to see a champion fail but Lance is almost untouchable. The next best choice, arguably, is Tyler. This might explain why a DNA test won't be done....because UCI knows it isn't Tyler's blood. Just throwing that out there for all you conspiracy theorists....
yeah the UCI divide their time between sitting on a 'grassy knoll' in Texas & making 'crop circles'.They also assisted in the 'filming' of the moon landing in a hollywood studio.
hitchy
11-25-04, 09:01 PM
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.......speaking of Dick Pound, we had a race horse out here in Oz recently called Richard Cranium......
hitchy
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11-25-04, 10:24 PM
#50
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I, the jury, find Tyler guilty of blood doping. This thread ends at the line below.
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