So I'm starting up my 3rd season racing and had a question about incorporating weight lifting into my plan.

About a week ago, I began squatting and, well did it wrong. Hurt my neck a bit and couldn't feel my thumbs for a few days afterward. My thumbs are almost back and my neck doesn't hurt so I'll be starting up again.

This base I was planing on hitting the gym fairly hard. 3x/week during base 1, 2x/week during base 2, 1x/week base 3. Following I have about 2.5-3 months for build before my A race.

What I was wondering was how to treat each month. A&C spends the first month on lifting and rest is just maintenance. I was wondering if there would be any negative effects to top out my lifting (strength wise) around the end of Base 2?

Well... I will answer this based on 'me' and let you decide what's best for you.
I am one of the few that feel so strongly about weight work.
Right now I am riding very little but have trained legs 4 times this week (quads/hams, hams, quads/hams, hams) and in my quads/hams routine I have been lifting very heavy (though not yet near my 'heavy' lifts). I will lift heavy from now until February though I will dial legs back to twice a week. My heavy days are brutal and at the end of the 1 1/2 hours I am totally spent like I had a 20 hour week on the bike doing all interval work. Come Feb I will dial things back a little but will continue to lift all through the year, remember I have changed goals and will focus solely on crits for 2013.

Let me give you some squat advice. Take a flat bench and put it between your legs (assuming you are average height), when your tailbone touches the bench that is your low point (very goal at incorporating the cycling muscles). If you hurt your neck and had finger numbness the bar is on the wrong spot. The bar should not be on your neck but rather cradled on your traps. Don't use a foam pad, towel or anything just get used to it. I have squatted 600+ pounds without anything to soften the bar as I feel they can mess you up. Secondly when doing a squat pick a point on the wall infront of you that is about 10 feet off the floor and keep focussed on that point and drive the power though your heels not your toes.

^^I was always shown that the bar should be positioned on your traps like you said and just below the first vertebra (big lump) you can feel so it isn't pressing on your neck. I'll see people use a foam pad and it positions the bar too high IMO.

I've only ever squatted in the 405-lb range, but I used a pad. I was just way too skinny in the shoulders to handle that bare bar (it was resting on skin and bones in lots of places). I found that the 1/4" pad compressed to almost nothing with 400 lbs on it, so there was just a better pressure distribution, and no balance/form problems. I always looked up to the ceiling a bit, rather than in front of me. I really did work to keep the weight on my heels though (lifting in a squat rack that kept things pretty safe).

When I am weight lifting I keep reminding myself that I am a cyclist who lifts weights, not a weight lifter. Hurting myself lifting weights and not being able to ride will hurt my fitness more than maxing out my weight workouts will help it.

I use a pad on the bar when doing squats too. Real weight lifters have muscles back there to rest the bar on; I don't.

I'm both a weight lifter and a cyclist so I can - I'm meaty
More importantly than that is to remember to check your ego at the door...

Yeah, the ego thing is why I never tried a max on squats. I didn't do anything that I couldn't do 10-20 reps.

You guys must be huge. 400# is about 200# more than I've ever attempted to try. Probably more than that since the gym has a Smith machine that equalizes part of the weight of the bar.

Feels way too easy to hurt yourself doing squats with lots of weight.

Not huge. I've never been able to bulk up. My legs are a bit bigger because I'm a cyclist, but I don't look like someone with a killer 1' power. Not sure how I can push decent weight without the size, especially since I'm so tall (less leverage). It's always been the case though. I would wait for my turn on the leg press when some body builder was on there with 500 lbs. When he got done, he'd start to clear the plates, and I'd tell him to leave it on there, throw on two more plates and that would be my warmup set. Guys like rkwaki can lift the serious weight, and I've never been anywhere near the kind of iron he can push, but I get a lot out of my noodle legs.

Unfortunately my two loves are cycling and weightlifting and they really don't compliment each other. I am also a very strong guy naturally so it really is relative. When I was bodybuilding/powerlifting my lifts shadowed what I do now but even at 190ish pounds (cue jsut) my strength is kinda crazy. I train at a gym that is predominantly powerlifter/bodybuilders so I don't fit in physically.

U ******!

seriously you can say ass, but not fat ass?

Correct
Ass
Hole

SMD U BUTT HEAD!!!!!!


jk ur too fat, ur not my ttype

Yea, I've been called lanky a few times

Never going to change that and I've finally accepted it. Leg press is one thing, but I can't squat anywhere near those weights. Same goes for most upper body exercises... legs and arms are too long. Stronger, sure but I don't get bigger.

Kind of odd because I've always had decent 5" and 10" numbers without any real practice.

Yeah, leg press is fun when you're over the capacity of a toyota truck, but only at 45-degrees.

i can max out our school's leg press machine pretty easily

So how much increase in cycling power does one get from doing lots of leg work in the gym during the off-season? I know that cycling is not squatting or doing leg curls...it's a different thing. Does all that gym work really equal extra power and strength on the bike?

I had planned to do some weights this off-season, but right now I'm recovering from rotator cuff surgery. All I'm doing right now is body-weight squats several days a week (every other day). Up to 50+ reps, and adding an extra rep each day. Will add weights as I'm able. Haven't been on a bike since 10/20, but will get on the trainer in a day or two.

Enjoying reading the thread.

Me too.

Everyone is different. For me weight increases to failure tracks pretty well with my peak sprint numbers. I've seen this in other people also.

Even if it didn't show benefits in cycling, it offsets most of the bad things that develop from doing long periods on the bike.

This is my primary reason for weight lifting, that and core.

Thanks for the advice!

I thought I'd post an update.
Decided to start prep with 3 weeks dedicated to work on form in the gym (lifting). One month of transition, one month of max strength. Base 3 will just be maintenance. Almost what Friel recommended. Starts tomorrow, wahoo.

Squatted again this past Friday and still had some numbness. I got a girl to take a video and she gave me some advice. Not too sure I like what she said, as I think she was crossing the front squat form with what I was trying to with the low bar back squat. O well, free advice right? My front squat is limited by heel cord and IT band tightness, but my low bar back squat should be "okay" to put the weight on. I just have to be careful that I don't put any extra extension in the lumbar spine at the bottom of the movement.
I'm thinking the numbness isn't so much in the neck anymore, but a stretch/impingement in a brachial plexus root due to my wrist position. I think I need to rely more of the bar resting on my traps, than me holding it up... Guess I'll tinker with that tomorrow and see what happens.

Since some are talking about reasons to lift, I did some thinking about that before I started. Here is my .02
I did some really basic lifting last base (machines in the apartment gym) and I had an awesome open to the season. As the season wore on my long hills just sucked, I was spinning up to keep up. Looking back, basically I was overcompensating leg speed for force. I was hoping that lifting (and those big ring intervals that I need to do) will help with that.
Also I raced my first track season this past year, it was a blast. Track + my power profile is hinting to me that I could be a decent sprinter if I put some effort into it.

Anyone want to start a tutorial thread on sprinting ? I get the concept that you go really hard for the last few hundred meters and try and win. However as I found out last year, a lot goes into those few seconds (and the period leading up to them). Positioning, timing the jump, etc.

If I have time tomorrow. Could be I retesting as there are several strong sprinters on here that use very different tactics.

You've done something really friggin bad if you got tingling down in your hands and hurt your neck.

I think people, especially cyclists should start with front squats. Why? Because they hit the quats. You can stuff like lunges to hit the hammies and gluts.

Actually, start with lunges, get the form down. Do them with 50 lb db's for 3x10. Then start doing dumbbell squats. Then think about the bar.
If you did that much damage to yourself one of your first few times squatting, then you might have an ego problem. You need to learn to get that in check or you'll end up wrecking your neck and your back. Front squats are easier on both. They suck to start with, but start with the bar and build up and you'll love to hate them.

db lunges+bar front squats+db romanian deadlifts= cyclists leg workout.

Stay away from smith machines and leg press machines if you can unless you have a hack squat machine. Leg press machines can really eff up your back if you don't have a good one. The angles are important. Hack squat machines are the bees knees.

If you can't front squat to parallel, you need to grab a foam roller and work out those issues. Also, use just the bar or a stick and get the form down and the flexibility will come.

If you're not flexible enough and you try squatting (back or front) you're really going to hurt yourself. The movement requires strength, core strength, and flexibility. Neglect any of those and you have a weak spot.

The iron has no weak spot.

No worries RTC, I will not put myself in a postion for permanent injury. I do realize I'm on the edge with the numbness, but I'm darn well stubborn enough to try and get it right.
Funny thing is that just the bar causes the numbness. Just standing there with the bar. I'm thinking its a stretch rather than compression on the neck at this point. Its gotta be a root stretch in the brachial plexus.

I'm gonna take you up on your suggestion and pick up some foam rollers. Also, I'm gonna start heading back to yoga this week. Squatting stuff will be form only at this point. You guys are right, I'm a cyclist and not a weightlifter. Priority is to ride a bike.

Not that this makes me immune to any idiotocracy, but I'm an Occupational Therapist. Since I've begun this whole lifting thing, at work I've been hitting up a physiatrist for advice on what I did, what likely caused it, and how long I should rest/recover before trying to problem solve it again.