my58vw

When you get dropped off the back after 3 minutes then get pulled part way all you are doing is an ITT and I have lots of experience with ITT's. Sure the racing experience that you will get is beneficial but if you are not ready to hang then it is a little different. If you were in the pack the whole time then the experience is great... Yes you do get pushed far and that is always good training. Of course I can do some of the local rides that at my level push me just as hard as races at my current level.

On the last topic I looked at my schedule and after Redlands it looks like I will be taking a good 6 weeks or so off. These is only two races during that period, the La Mirada GP and the San Diego Grand Prix. I know that I am not even close to being ready for the first (one of the hardest races in SoCal all year) and the one in SD is way too far. The next Ontario GP is in six weeks and since it is the local race I am almost obligated to do it. That will tell me alot in that time, expecially with 6 weeks of good training inbetween.

The_Convert

Honestly after seeing the guys who can hang towards the front, there is no way power is your main limiter.
Racing Tactics for Cyclist by Thomas Phren is an awesome resource and he goes to great lengths to explain how tactics far outweigh outright power.

my58vw

I am sure that is the case and I believe it but if you can not run the speed of the people in the front group how do tatics come into play. Last week I did relativly well because I could hang at the front because the pace was relativly slow (22 MPH). At 28+ MPH I do not have the muscular endurance to really sit in and push that speed for that long even with some wind block. That would be like asking a relativly slow rider to hang with the fast group by using tatics. If the slower person can not accelate as fast (does not have the power) then all the tactics in the world are not going to help as they are dropped off the back. Tactics help emensly when you are near the strength required to hang...

Next time out I am going to try and get a spot near the front and try and stay there. I think in that case I will have a better chance then being on the back. Possibly if I can stay towards the front I will have a much better shot then in the back as illustrated today. Once I got out back I was done for because I then did not have the power to keep up and once off the back as I said it was over.

I am going to head out to BN tomarrow and see if I can find the book, looks like a very good read.

The_Convert

I would read the book. Aside from the concrete skills you would learn, he tells you many specific instances where a relatively slow rider DOES hang with the fast group by using his superior tactics.

Unless your legs are like toothpicks, your heart like a golf ball, and your lungs like the Marlboro Man's... I really really think you should not get blown off the back. You are blaming your physical too much at the expense of learning efficiency.

my58vw

I hope that it will help out next week too...

I plan on training as hard as I can this week and seeing how it goes in Ontario. I think that hardest part of the race this week was that "little" hill in the center. Ontario is significatly less hilly so I should have an easier time (I hope)... with some tactics training under my belt.

bigdraft

58vw, don't let your performance in the Home Depot Crit discourage you. It's a very technical crit. While it is only four corners, two of them are off camber (turns 2 & 4) with turn two (where you got dropped) also being narrowed down to one lane width, so the pack jams up there and slows down. Anytime that happens, the front guys are going to push the pace to string things out and shell as many people as they can, especially in the first three laps. With the next straight being slighty downhill, thru the chicane only magnifies their accelerations, which puts a huge accordian effect at the back of the pack. It's one of the things you have to visualize when preriding the course, so positioning is pretty important going into it. Also since the road narrows for the chicane you have less room for passing, not to mention trying to move up on a downhill section is pretty hard in and of itself.

Not all crits are built alike so having either prior experience with a race like this or a good understanding of crit dymanics when previewing the course can help you position yourself better with the foresight you develop. Comparitively, Ontario is a very straight forward course, in that it's pretty flat with wide roads and no wierd cornering issues. Keep racing and build a body of expereince that will help you when the rest of your body comes on line, so to speak.

my58vw

Thanks alot, I am feeling a little better about today. I knew it was going to be a chalenging course and that was true. The second corner though was the absolute killer for me, stuck in the back and without the acceleration I needed I can see how I got dropped.

I live 6 miles from Ontario GP. I think I will go out there a few times this week and just ride the course and see how things are out there. I hope that this will be a better race then next time...

BTW if you take mission Blvd (the main street next to the race down into VanBuren (the main street mission ends up as) and make a left on Galena (the second main street) that is where I live and I use Galena and an interval steet all the time and the industrial area to practicce cornering.

doctorSpoc

You've only been training for 4 months? didn't realize that. then you should really look at this year as almost a training year and by the end of the year you should be able to sit comfortably in that group that you thought was going sooo fast. as a rider just starting out you need to concentrate on raising your LT. you want to be able to go faster and do more work without 'going lactic'. then you will be in a better position to react to jumps because you won't already be in the 'red zone' when everyone else is just cruising. to do that you need to build you aerobic capacity (not so much you anaerobic capacity although you should work on that too a little). you need to allot of riding at 5-10 beat per second below your LT (LT = aprox. the HR that you time trial at) group rides or by your self. you can do 10min intervals and build to 20 or 30min if that is easier for you.

really good that you are getting a coach that will really put some structure into your weekly and yearly schedule which will really help you allot.

again, if you keep up your training your form will come along it just takes time and you are just starting out... rember to take easy weeks every 4 weeks or so to give your body time to build those muscles, capilaries etc. rest is as important as your workouts.... for your mind and your body. good luck.

my58vw

Thanks,

I feel that I have a decient aerobic base (it could be better but wrong time of the year). It seems like my limiter is my LT threshold. In the last few weeks I have been doing LT intervals of increasing lengths just below my LT, for 8+ minutes. I have seen improvement but that improvement does not come fast enough.

I agree that in a race I feel like I am at the red line and can not go any faster, already anaerobic. It is like a car at the fuel cut off, once I hit it it is over and I am not going any faster. If the rest of the drivers (cyclists) want to go faster I can not keep up.

I agree this is a training year and all I can do it get faster... and faster I will.

rockmuncher

Your cardiovascular system (ie. heart, lungs, & circulation) is not quite ready yet, that's all. It's a natural progression that comes about through recovery from carfeully planned overload conditions. Racing at red line and beyond when you aren't fully fit takes you beyond the range of useful overload, and is not beneficial.

Your coach will be able to enlighten you on this. And don't get annoyed if your coach says "You're doing it all wrong, you have to start again". If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.

Your coach might also want to know what you've been doing so far, so start compiling a brief diary of your last four months work so that you can hand it over if they ask for it.

It should be interesting for you to see how different your program might be under a coach!

Good luck, and enjoy the riding