DieterDrake

Who said anything about fairness? Not me. That's a far more wierd debate that I'd rather not get into.


Thank you and this is absolutely true: more people are turning in the gran fondo direction every year, especially with the aging 'racer demographic'. BUT, comparing an average gran fondo with the Battenkill / Catskills Pro/am races or even the gran fondo (where we have the EXACT same infrastructure in place: corner marshals, police & EMS everywhere isn't quite right. Would you rather a free sandwich at the finish or police officers & course marshals at every stop sign and left-hand turn allowing you to blast through unimpeded (+ staffed & stocked rest stops)? From a liability perspective, it's a no-brainer... From a participant's perspective, I don't know if they'd know the difference until they end up over the hood of a car... In any case, it's tough to convey the value of all that ahead of time. That said, the VT Overland GP is a great event, I hear, and he's making a small fortune on it (far more than 99% of "races" in the Northeast...). Good for him. I hope it continues. The Dirty40 just got cancelled, though, and that's not good - another great event.

globecanvas

With the preamble that I have done every Battenkill since I started racing, went to Battenkill both days this year even though I was only racing on one day, and am wearing a Battenkill t-shirt at this very moment...

I think this is less about promoter profit and racer entitlement, and more just about personalities. It's fine to approach (or abandon) promoting as a business, but it's not great for any business to deal with unhappy customers by saying "if you don't like it, don't come back." When you get to that point, as a business owner, it's probably time to walk away.

dz_nuzz

German engineering in the house ya?

Edit: @shovelhd

DieterDrake

Not really. Just as participants have a right to select events, we have a right to select participants. If we lose the snarky, Twittering, upgrade & ranking obsessed crowd (and that is where my angst is focused, make no mistake) because I've made it clear that I would rather that very small but vocal crowd not come, then fine. We'd be happy with (just!) 1000 at Battenkill next year. We'll probably get a few more, though. Maybe. Who knows?

Anyway, I've probably overstayed my welcome in this forum. I'll see you next spring. I'm hibernating now.

Wylde06

If I was to lose another 50 pounds and suddenly be able to climb my way out of a paper bag (hint...its super flat here. Like, overpasses are my hills) then maybe I would make the trip for Battenkill.

I would probably do more road races actually, and not stick to mostly flat crits

gsteinb

It's tough to overstay ones welcome here. Hang around. I'm certain you could contribute to the dialogue on more topics than just this one.

Ygduf

Agreed. I like perspective from people who are involved with cycling but aren't necessarily there just for the riding/racing. See @Doge as well.

JoesInBoston

I've done this race 5 times since 2009.....back when it was only $35 or $40 and you got a swag bag full of gu's and a teeshirt that you would wear around in the months after like a badge of honor. You can put me in the crowd of people who feel they are getting less yet paying more. I understand wanting to make a profit, but every year I show up it feels like you're cutting another item while increasing the price by $5 or $10 a head and it just feels like a big punch in the gut, man. Tee shirts one year (obviously the most important thing). Prize money another year. No combined champions race on Sunday in another year. This year my follow compact car (not truck or van.......compact car) could only carry 5 or 6 pairs of wheels. I didn't flat but I sure as hell hope that there weren't more than 5 or 6 front flats in my field that needed the follow car. The move to the fair grounds creates more open space I guess but it has way less character than Cambridge.

And next year it doesn't even count for anything with our governing body? Another punch in the gut.

tetonrider

been reading this thread. i think it is cool that we have someone like @DieterDrake here.

guys like dieter enable guys like me to play bike racer on a weekend. fwiw, i am all for paying MORE for races (esp quality events), as i think everyone making more money keeps my hobby going.

like everyone else, i read the new about the forthcoming changes to battenkill. i'm a licensed racer and have appreciated, in the past, that it is a USAC event. actually, i have to say that the UCI status is part of what first drew me to the race in 2013. i was a little bummed when that dropped off, but when i returned in 2015 the event had not lost any of its lustre.

so....why did it seem like a bummer when i read the USAC status was dropped? i thought about this for a while and realized that it didn't. at first it seemed like taking something -- anything -- away was a bad thing. yeah, upgrade points are nice and, yeah, when you win a race against a big field it is cool to see that on one's USAC page, but other than ego, was there anything meaningful to it?

if the organization is the same, if the way the race is conducted is the same (fantastic, by the way), if the course is the same, then why wouldn't anyone who is truly in it for the love of the sport apply the same set of criteria to enter in 2016 that they did in years prior?

i started to think about how everyone seems to complain about USAC. what if USAC goes away altogether? what then of those precious upgrade points? would people get so hung up on upgrading? focus on the upgrade seems silly. i know a bunch of people who upgraded to get to a particular goal, and then stopped racing once they'd checked that box. i've been in the upgrade rat-race, too, so i'm not immune. just was interesting to step back and think about.

i don't know if i'll fly out in 2016 -- i initially liked the later date as i thought i could do a battenkill-KSR double, but i now realize it is the same time as nationals -- but if i do, my decision won't be based on whether USAC is involved.

everyone can decide for him/herself whether there is enough value for their hard-earned dollar. i've been lucky enough to do some big events around the country in a variety of states, and i haven't left cambridge feeling like i didn't get my money's worth. of course, ymmv.

i hope 2016 is not the last edition, and hope to return one day to race it....as i haven't been able to WIN a race there. yeah, all else equal i'd prefer it to be a USAC race. i'd also rather see prize money given to a handful of amateurs going to the promoter or perhaps to lower fees for all, especially if it may be the difference between an event surviving or not.

my $0.02.

gsteinb

I've said this a million times. Prize money for most categories should go away. And I podiumed 1/2 my races, and brought home prize money almost every weekend. Give me a jersey and I'm thrilled. Medals? Great. Trophies collect dust though, ick. Get a bigger 1,2 or P1 purse.

globecanvas

I always donate my prize money back. Come to think of it, the one time I didn't was Battenkill 3 years ago, back when there were cash prizes, because it was like $250. And I do get a kick out of having some medals clinking around.

Homebrew01

Did anyone do the mountain bike race in Newtown CT a week or so ago ??

I'm curious what it's like.

shovelhd

I've never worked a MTB race. On my list. I want to get my road/cross upgrade first.

Good luck grolby and Mikey at Fruitlands. I'll probably be in the pits as usual. Keep an eye on EB from Stampede, he had an impressive win last weekend.

grolby

Thanks. Definitely watching him! He's not the snappiest rider around, but he sure can motor once he gets going.

mike868y

is that the dude who races a single speed?

shovelhd

He may race SS but he rides a geared bike in your field.

grolby

Depends. He raced a SS at Gloucester. Still rode past me. Only finished behind me cause he cracked a rim not long after.

shovelhd

Ah. I wasn't at Gloucester.

mike868y

that damn race predictor thinks i'm a lot better than i am

shovelhd

Everybody including a dumb computer thinks that you are better than you think you are.

grolby

Seriously.

I finally saw the course map this morning. Looks like a course designed to inflict maximum pain on me. A couple of brutally long power sections.

shovelhd

Big fields too. Warm up well and nail the holeshot.

shovelhd

Nice to see you grolby and Mikey. You both raced well. If you didn't stick around to watch the pro race, it went down like this. We were all wondering why Curtis White wasn't on the front row at the start. He spotted the field two minutes, blew through it, and beat Adam Myerson, who sprinted for second, by almost two minutes.

mike868y

good to see you! i watched the start of the pro race. curtis is certainly on another level.

i was happy with my race. would have liked to have been another 3 or 4 places up but on that course it's basically just fitness, so no excuses, I just didn't have it.

Wylde06