pro tip: your bike rattles a LOT less when your cassette is actually tight.

I'll also throw out an endorsement for DA skewers. They aren't light by any means, but they should hold that wheel in place.

And as far as tight cassettes go, I recently noticed my 11t was slipping. Apparently, I had installed a spacer behind the cassette, so the 11t wasn't fully engaged with the freehub splines. Cassette was tight, but that wasn't the issue.

Yes! Thanks for correcting me. Brain fart.

Internal cam designs are the most bomber (but heaviest).

That said, I've never personally had a problem with any external cam design (Zipp, Tune), but they generate less force and are easier to get wrong.

Plus, DA skewers are now "aero". :lol:

I mainly use Zipp skewers unless going ultralight -- and I use the DA skewer on my TT bike (horizontal dropouts--the Zipps don't bite as well nor do they fit in a trainer as easily for me).

Not sure the Venge has steel clamping surfaces, as Doge mentions. He could be right, but I thought it is aluminum as I have slight marks over the years from clamping. My Shiv has steel dropouts and does not get marked/notched in the same way (and the Zipp/external cam designs don't clamp as well on it).

I swapped out some cassettes the other day and noticed that the wavy washer, spacer, spring or whatever is under the lock-ring disintegrated. Do I really need that part?

Tire roundness question

In mounting tires (Vittoria Open Pave CG 25's; Conti 4000's; Conti Force/Attacks) to my Zipp 404's (clincher) with latex tubes, there's always some wobbliness. You can see the center of the tire wiggle slightly as you rotate the wheel, and you can see that the bead is not always perfectly roundly set into the wheel. (The wheels with no tire have no wobbliness - they're true).

I often repeatedly mount the tire, while paying careful attention to the lay of the latex inner tube, just to minimize this, but I never get it perfect.

Now I've started riding rollers, and on the rollers you can feel the asymmetries in the tire mounting (or perhaps it's partially an imperfect lay of the latex tube?).

My question is: Do others have this issue? What's a tolerable level of asymmetry? What does everybody do to minimize this?

I drive support often. Had a couple non tighten lock rings this year lead to messed up mechanical situations for riders.

I have that one. Might use it.

I haven't had this issue (Reynolds 46's and Conti 4k's). I put a tiny bit of air into the tube, then 'rolled' the tire with my fingers (3-4 fingers on one sidewall, thumb on the other) all around the tire to get the tire straight and balanced all around the wheel. That seemed to work really well and I don't have the issue you're talking about.

You could try over inflating the tire to see if it pops into position. I've had this issue with Conti GP4000s too. A little baby powder inside the rim helps the tire not stick as much. I don't put it there specifically, but I do coat my tubes with powder before mounting so everything ends up sliding a bit easier.

This is the S-WORKS got it in Jan.

The plate got bent from Sunday's action. I tried to bend it back - it acted like steel so I ground it off with the Dremel tool.
You can see the metal tab from the dropout face.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=449378http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=449379http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=449380

MASI FYI - never an issue using same wheel and light KCNC Ti skewers.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=449381

you might be right about it being steel. i've assumed aluminum based on the behavior that i've seen.

you ground that off? that fracture looks more like how aluminum would crack.

i'm amazed that your dropouts look like that after 3, 4 months. i've had my s-works venge since late 2011, it's been shipped countless times, i've removed and replaced the hanger a ton.....and it doesn't look like that. are you throwing a chain to the outside? is that damage occurring from when the wheel falls out? looks rough.

can't help you other than to say that i've had many combinations of wheels/hubs/skewers and have not personally experienced an issue. obviously yours is real. i wonder if those times that your son was not properly clamping it caused uneven wear.

years ago, i worked on a friend's bike and he had been having some issues. i think he was failing to properly clamp his rear wheel and the forces of the drivetrain cause the dropouts to wear in a way that wasn't square...which then made clamping perfectly more difficult/impossible. maybe that is what is happening now with your boy's bike.

either way, weird. hope he doesn't get hurt or seriously injure someone else.

My issue is post over-inflating...this after the bead is set, at 120psi or so. I too typically use baby powder with new tires and tubes.

Even with this, the tires are asymmetric enough to notice if you spin the wheel on a bike stand, and also now on the rollers.

Well we have had four wheel pulls in high watts.

The rest is philosophy stuff so I'll try to keep it short. I started with an eight year old rider on electronic Mavic, Upgraded him to Di2 at age ten with the clear communication idea it was always my stuff he was riding. He rides and eats and sleeps and cleans the bike and gets into lubing the chain. He has installed water bottle cages and they have come off in stage races. He is evidence there is an inverse relationship between mechanics and riders. Now there is a transition to be made, especially with travel to Europe to him owning some things. I tend to go away before races now (as I did Sunday) and let him get ready without me telling him what to do how to warm up or how to eat. Clearly how to clamp a wheel is something to address, but it is not clear to me it is all him. This is a different design and combo of parts. As most things we've learned, they are learned by mistakes.

i know--you keep saying. what's the power? homeboy is 140# (and on junior gears?), so torque is pretty low.

pretty sure i've sprinted, too, once or twice on mine. a wheel falling out is super serious.

4 wheels pulling out = super lucky that someone has not been injured. (esp a front wheel....did you write that a front came out once?)

i'm not kidding when i say that if this were my issue i would put all resources into figuring this out. also, i'd be sending him out to do max sprints (or ideally someone bigger) a TON in training before letting him race with that liability again. if he goes into a race with a known issue and it happens and takes someone else out, i think they'd have the right to be super pissed.

(i know you are working on it.)

I have the Vittoria Open Corsa CX on my (not my son's) bike with a latex tube and it is pretty straight. If I see much of a wobble I think the tube may be pinched. Latex gets more easily pinched. If its mounted correctly and no tube pinch, while it may bug you it things are seated and not pinching is taking place it's fine. I doubt that is hand applied tread, but hand applied tread does this often.

I have sent the big letter.
Never an issue with the front.
I tend to avoid posting power as he does not race with power and it irritates people, but as you asked twice...
Leg press 1,000 5X 45degree and several over 1,450W group ride training both in Oct 2014.
He's quite a bit faster and stronger now. I expect he's laying down about 2000W for that jump then goes to 1,500 24W/kg area.

i think folks roll eyes at power #s for a bunch of reasons, but mostly because what people quote is distorted or just plain wrong. power without zeroes, peak power for 1/4 of a pedal stroke instead of 5", meter not zeroed or slope checked 5 years ago, quarq (just kidding!), etc. not saying that is the issue with your #s because i've never paid any attention to that. i usually just tune out quoted #s .

anyway....

not interested in leg presses. actual forces on the pedal at 120rpm (what he jumps at is most important, and guessing he is on jr gears so maybe even higher rpm), even for 1500W, are pretty low. i'd raise an eyebrow at 2000w, but in the end i don't think that those #s would be a problem. those aren't sustained #s and the sustained # isn't going to be an issue for that frame and a decent skewer.

just wanted to establish that he is not doing anything insane, like outsprinting robert förstemann @ 140#. check cavendish's setup on the venge. zipp hubs. can't tell what skewers but guessing internal cam. should be "OK" for your boy.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=449406

[QUOTE=tetonrider;17778723if he goes into a race with a known issue and it happens and takes someone else out, i think they'd have the right to be super pissed.
[/QUOTE]

and given that Doge's posted about it in a public forum if the right person gets taken out he could end up with a law suit on his hands.

Its about as serious as loosely tightened freewheel lock rings that lock a wheel solid in a crit.

I think the real power is somewhere between your two pro examples. So not sure Cav's setup would be OK.
That is why the wheel is coming out.

I still don't understand. It's a non-standard hub?

in god we trust; all others bring data.

i'll put a 5'er on not a 2k peak. (assuming non-Quarq.)


no one does. the problem is kind of crazy...esp happening 4x.

i'm just amazed a wheel fell out 4x and (a) the mechanic wasn't fired even if he is a family member and (b) someone's face isn't broken.

this is what I don't get. [MENTION=364302]Doge[/MENTION] is alluding to something non standard, and that wheel has caused issues 4x and he is still choosing to put his kid at risk like that? Maybe I'm misreading, but I don't have space in my dropouts to add washers on the inside like is pictured...

doge's said some ridiculous stuff, but claiming that is 140# kid puts out more power than cav may take the cake.

"(a) the mechanic wasn't fired even if he is a family member"

I don't think the usac u23 devo salary would be able to pay for puppy doge's rent.

well, on all our bikes the stays are a bit flexible, so in theory you could add a couple washers and still jam a wheel in there.

what i don't get is why someone would want to jam something in there (to presumably take up space--that much i get) as it seems like a band-aid. normal hub, right skewer should do the trick. if they don't, then i'd for damn sure have specialized take a look at it.

1st time a wheel falls out....fluke.

2nd time?

4th time?