posted this in the fitting forum, but didn't really get a lot. i've always been under the impression that top tube + stem length (or frame reach + stem length) could be kind of interchanged (i.e. like a 54cm with 110 stem equals 56 with 90 stem). of course, all this assumes similar saddle/handlebar drop and most things being equal. i tried a 54 last week and as far as reach is identical to my current 56, and in a brief test ride felt like a better fit and more comfortable. i'd like to take one out for a longer test ride to see how it holds up over a normal ride for me, but i've been wondering if there is anything a shorter top tube that could be more comfortable for me compared to an equivalent reach and bar height on a bigger top tubed frame.

edit: there's probably too many other factors, from handlebar design to seat tube angle that I'm missing. so i definitely oversimplify here

You're right, if you measure from saddle to bar (takes into account TT, stem, and saddle forwardness sort of), you should be able to interchange.

Bars make a huge difference in reach at the drops (most saddle-bar measurements are to the tops of the bars). Drop, reach are significant variables.

Saddle design makes a difference. You may sit 20 cm back from nose on one, 25 cm back on another. Use the same make/model saddle to eliminate this as a variable.

Even with the exact same reach, say bar to drops, I think a bike with a shorter top tube feels better. There's more weight on the front wheel making the bike feel more stable at speed. Within reason of course.

A significant factor is going to be head tube length. That's going to determine how you sit over the bike. The 54 should be lower even with the equivalent reach. You may have to adapt for this.

interestingly, the reach and stack of my bike are similar to the 54cm allez I tried (the allez does have a slightly longer headtube 14.5 cm vs 13 on mine, although I have a quill stem converter with some spacers). I didn't realize these until after the fact when I looked up the geometry and was quite surprised at my perceived comfort with it. I'm going to have to do some more test drives, and rent something if I can (although it seems like the only shops that have rentals here only rent out Giant).
What I'd like to get to the bottom of eventually once I can talk to a fitter is whether my discomfort on the bike (trapezius mainly) is a function of my fit (possibly, but I've tried to address the common symptoms of that with bar width, stem length, etc) or if it's a frame issue (mid 90's harsh aluminum where I feel my trapezius tighten over the more unavoidable parts of rough roads, and running slightly lower pressures doesn't seem to change it too much).

The only time my traps (and my wife's) have hurt on a bike is when the reach is too short. Ymmv and all that. Have you posted a fitting picture yet? Maybe you're right in the middle of a two good positions.

First time in a while I felt refreshed when Junior woke me up at about 5:30 AM. Managed about 7 hours of sleep, woke up only 3 times and for a few minutes each time. For a few months now I've only been able to sleep a couple-few hours sleep at a time. Total sleep in a 24 hour period probably totaled 7-9 hours but I never felt refreshed, I felt like I was in a haze the whole day.

I may pass out in an hour or two but we'll see.

I was running super hot water on my arm and thinking, it is almost worth getting poison ivy to experience how good this feels. It occurred to me that was a really weird thing to think so I did a little research. Apparently it's a common sensation:

https://www.red dit.com/r/askscience/comments/n8d1v/why_does_scalding_hot_water_feel_so_orgasmically

Having a baby is actually getting me in slightly less awful shape. That girl is heavy and walking around with her all the time is a great upper body workout, plus my hip flexors and groin are getting a good workout from bouncing a little and rocking back and forth. Fudgy is gonna be ripped doing double duty.

dude...have you been racing with poison ivy? how does it feel during the race? does the intensity of racing distract from the pain? can you threaten someone in the field so they don't try to outsprint you?

Poison ivy isn't that big of a deal, it's gross and massively uncomfortable, but it's not like leprosy or something (sorta looks like that at the moment though). It's not contagious after you wash the oils off thoroughly. I don't notice it while racing. I certainly notice it at all other times. Probably the biggest problem with a bad case of poison ivy and racing is the cumulative effect of lack of quality sleep.

If I were racing with poison ivy I think I'd take more risks with the knowledge that road rash might rid me of some afflicted skin.

I went to my allergy and asthma doc today for my annual check up. He suggested we switch me to a new daily medication that I can get for free for 12 months. Which, of course, I said, "Free Medicine, sign me up."

Then while he went to get the sample and the card for my year's worth of free medicine, I looked it up on the GlobalDRO site. And what do you know, it's prohibited.

No free medicine for me.

I return to work tomorrow after 8 weeks off. I am looking forward to it (being out of my house) and dreading it (back to the bull**** meetings and other people's stress) at the same time.

Before I go though, tonight I pick up a nanny candidate at the airport. Our 3rd bedroom may go out of use from a craft/guestroom to a full-time bedroom for a live-in nanny. I'm excited to meet her in person, hopeful it will work out, and worried that we won't like her or our small house will be off-putting to her. And she's Mormon, so I have to start watching my negativity towards (some aspects of some) religions.

It's probably a steroid.

wth can't sleep again.

My doctor was initially shocked that it was banned, but then he said he suspected the banned it because it is so new, they probably don't have a test to check for it. It's a beta-2 agonist, which is already a conditional class of drugs.

In other news, I came home last night to see that my wife had dyed her hair pink. Not entirely pink, but there are a few pink strips in it.

She didn't like that I started calling her Jem and asking why she was being "Truly outrageous."

If she's never dyed her hair a bright color that would have been a shock.

The Missus's best friend regularly dyes her hair bright colors so it's not surprising if that friend does it. If the Missus did? I'd be in shock, I have no idea how I'd react.

when I wake up at 1am to pee, and then I can't get back to sleep again, I pop a melatonin...I've had good luck with it. It only takes 10 minutes or so to kick in. And, it feels like the half life of melatonin is a few hours, so I can still wake up at the regular time and not feel the effects of it.

PHEW! Nothing seriously wrong with my bike from Sunday's crash. The Di2 wiring in the left hood came loose when I pushed the hoods back into position after the crash (causing the front derailleur and left sprint buttons to stop working). But it turns out it was a simple fix with no damage. The rear derailleur hanger was bent a little, but easily fixed. And it seems there was no damage to my carbon bars. ...so it's just damage to ME I have to deal with ^_^

...who 'dislikes' a YouTube video from an obscure criterium race? (Someone did this to my most recent upload.) How weird.

I'm sure it's totally unfounded, but carbon bars worry me. My frame is carbon, wheels are carbon, crank arms are carbon, but not the bars or stem ...

The woman you beat.

They're the aero integrated bars/stem 'cockpit' meant for the new Foil. I don't think they make a non-carbon version.

Ha!

I got a dislike on a race video that I DNFd, but I felt like I deserved it..