do you think, viper, that i don't do the same types of things you do out in the woods, trails and mountains? Duuude...... and what makes you think I don't use siltarps? I've got a couple of Integral Designs siltarps, an I.D. Svarsky ski guides silshelter, a Golite Silnylon pyramid, and other assorted lightweight shelters like the Black Diamond Betamid and the Black Diamond Lighthouse.

Viperx, I've been sleeping in snowbanks for nearly 30 years now. I honed my teeth on long wilderness trips in winter before I was a teenager. I've served on a mountain rescue team, volunteer with the rangers on Mount Rainier in the winter, tested gear for MSR. I founded a climber's festival, I worked for Marmot, I made plans last night with Fred Beckey to go skiing this weekend.

Goretex is NOT the golden fleece, it does not breathe enough for active sports. You are still convinced goretex is the greatest thing for outdoor sports since synthetic fabrics were invented, and I soundly disagree. I think people that still wear a lot of Gore (and laud it) as being stuck with 20th century fabric technologies.


Here's an anecdote I've seen repeated in high mountain terrain, in full conditions, both as a member of a Mountain Rescue Team, and as a backcountry ski patroller on Rainier.

(Example: Blizzard, 80MPH winds, person stranded in the high country on 12,000 foot Mount Adams. Also, Mount Rainier, ALL the time, all conditions)

ME: Wool, softshells ( I have a great mountain jacket from Patagonia, a %100 windproof, unlaminated softshell made of a tough-as-nails dobbyknit that keeps out 80MPH winds and is 3 times as abrasion and tear resistant as a Goretex shell)

OTHER TEAM MEMBERS: Traditional synthetic layers, goretex shells.

REPEATEDLY, I have been out all day on searches or patrols, and once the team stops, the people in Goretex and synthetics immediately experience evaporative cooling and begin to suffer miserably once stopped. Me, in wool and softshells, am dry and comfortable. Little to no evaporative cooling.


WHY? Because by NOT WEARING A GORETEX SHELL, I've avoided building up a layer of sweat inside my clothes. Goretex is a sweatbox during activity.

I could care less about your muddy feet. you taking pictures of them shows you must be amused by the novelty of it all. Personally, I could care less.

I've been dirtbagging it out in the woods for most of my life. Someone that thinks goretex is the greatest thing since sliced bread is still a tenderfoot. I KNOW the limitations and poor performance characteristics of wearing goretex as your outer layers.

think about this word too - its a case of greenhorn Goretex love.

You can delude yourself all you want, ViperZ, but you can't fool a bonifide dirtbag. I had a Bibler toddtex tent for years, replaced it with an Epic canopied tent. I'm am suitably impressed by it. and it ISN'T WATERPROOF.

Even your tents you've mentioned are pigs. Heavy tents, bro. I last carried a VE-25 when it was still the VE-24 with the snow tunnels. That's too heavy of a tent for everything short of a Himalyan expedition. You brought one to hike the beaches on the West Coast Trail. (hahahaha) And the Big Dipper? You actually backpack with that thing?


There are MUCH better fabrics for your everyday wear and weather than Goretex.