Don't people climb Everest in gore-tex? I mean hell... if its good enough for everest, its good enough for my trial and tribulations

Yes, and people climb everest in other materials also. How does that change anything? The jackets are usually sponsor supplied anyways. Its a material that has a 20 year and a billion dollars (just a guess) worth of marketing headstart on others. And threads like these prove that marketing beats real results in the minds of uninformed consumers.

Thanks Jarey.


There is no argument that there are better performing materials in the market than Gore. However again, it's not just the material, as construction and design also are key.

The best analogy I can think of at the moment is you can claim to build the most powerful engine, however unless the chassis is equal to match, it doesn't really mean a lot on the race track.


Now we are just talking garments, and in the real world of use, both are up to the task, and are better than a rubber suit, so really the choice will come down to fit, finish and your fashion choice. So how is it affirmed that a garment works for your situation? Well If I don't have to think about it, then that's good, however if I think about it and it's a positive thought like "man I sure like the way this feels" then that is good too. I have seldom wished for anything else in all my outdoor time. I'm warm, I'm dry and I'm comfortable.


Bekologist may well have good experience, and I don't disregard them, however to say his experiences and adventures all apply to mine and that I should have done and worn something else is silly. I have been outdoors too, I have been as comfortable as I have wanted to be using my "Old" equipment. What more is there really to say to that, when they work with out even having to think about it?

The Gorts he laughed about worked in my situation. If I would have listened to him before the trip and took the shortie gators, I could have been miserable, my feet would have been pruny like my buddies that was just wearing hiking socks only. Beathability was fine.

As to his chastising me for my tent, it was what I had at the time, so we used it. What's wrong with that? It was comfortable, kept us dry and was roomy for hanging our wet clothes each night when it was raining outside. Outdoor snobs think you have to have the ultimate in everything when really all you need is enthusiasm and a bit of common sense. People have been doing this for many years with lesser equipment like waxed wool coats and canvas tents, and lived to tell about it.

It's a slim chance a person is going to die in the back country because they chose Gortex instead of some other premier fabric shell. In fact I would bet when faced with that life threatening situation, it's because of other circumstances that have them in that trouble, and the choice of material will not be the pivotal point.

That said I have what I need to be happy, but I'm always looking for something else. I'm going to try a Event jacket for cycling. However I would be hard pressed to give up my XCR shell because it makes me feel good when ever I wear it. I love the feel and fit of it more than anything I have tried on regardless of what material. I prefer it to a soft shell because it packable and not as heavy, plus is better in a rain storm. I own a few soft shells and just don't feel as secure with them. I like the feel of a Gore shell as my only barrier against my tee shirt for it is lighter, thinner, and given the right application, breathable enough.


I trust what I have learned to use and deal with in the back country, and while I'm open to other's opinions, I find I don't listen to people that ram their opinions at you as the only way, and what you do outdoors is marginalized compared to them and their accomplishments. Yes I have not climbed Mt Rainer, however that does not lessen my experience with dealing with the outdoors and keeping myself comfortable while doing it. I know what works for me.

I agree, if were talking end product, the make/fit/features add a lot of value. Showerspass has an event jacket, but it still lacks many features Id like to see. And it still has that potato chip bag feel to it.

It would be great of some of the big names used other materials so we had more choices. But dollars speak, and gore wont license to any company that uses competitors material. So even companies like Lowe Alpine who switched, end up switching back due to gores marketing bringing in more dollars than other materials superior performance.

Now since you have a big budget, order in a rapha softshell and give me a review before i pony up the cash and buy one myself https://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/article.asp?UAN=379
Its a softshell rainjacket with a pump pocket and mp3 wire management hooks for gods sake, what else could i want !

Those Raphas are nice and I have scoped them out before.


That potato chip bag feel is off putting, but I could live with it somewhat. My old 3 layer Goretex are like that. The stretch fabric the XCR is on is really soft in hand, the jacket is soft, supple and quiet.


I bought a pair of Craft cycling pants for they had really nice features, like front and back mesh venting at the waist, and 2 Velcro tabs on each leg to tailor the leg shape for cycling.



Alas I returned them for they were the noisiest garment I have ever tried on. I'm not sure what Craft was thinking making something so noisy, seeing as in cycling your legs are the biggest motion items. The pants had a proprietary WB coating on the insides that really added to the noise. It was too bad as the idea and design of the pant was good.

I went for a +3 hour ride today that was pretty aerobic in intensity, there was lots of slogging in deep and slush snow, quite a work out. Temperature was -7C

I was dressed in a base layer of old Patagonia Capilene, uppers and lowers. I had a TNF 100wt fleece on my upper body, and my TNF XCR as the shell. My lowers I tried my new MEC Samurai cycling pants made of cordura.

I was comfortable through out the ride and my upper body temperature seemed to regulate automatically, with out any problems of dampness or over heating. My legs felt a bit cold as the pants breathed a bit too well I think and are not wind proof.


I love this jacket and layering combo, it works for me. However I'll be looking for a eVent as well.

No one claimed it would not work, a kids tricycle can be used for a tour across the country. Just that when someone claims it is the best, thats where an argument erupts (and the original post was how it was the greatest material ever)

ViperZ, if you already have a goretex jacket and are comfortable when riding with it, shelling out for eVent may not give enough of a upgrade to warrent the cost. If you sweated to death in it as we on the west coast would due to higher ambient temps, or were out looking for your first shell, then id recomend it. Actually i only recomend a hardshell like eVent during downpours or extended rain exposure.

There is one company making a softshell jacket with eVent, which would eliminate the potato chip bag feel which i also hate. Many times i think im getting wet, only to take off my jacket at work/home and find im almost completely dry other than pits, i think its phsychological from many years of getting wet in crappy shells. Unfortunatly I have not found any review of the softshell version yet

Capilen is made from polartech powerdry, my favorite base layer, good choice there

Edit : i use the mec whirlwind tights, which are windproof on the front and spandex on the back. Not sure how well they would work at -7 without a base though

I augment these with knee warmers below -5C (and with moto pants over top below -20C).

ya ive used knee warmers with them at about the same temps, they work pretty good and i find them the best combo of wind protection/warmth/breathabilty.

I had to break down and get some waterproof ones for days its pouring though, with the whirlwind ones the water was going in the spandex back, running down my legs, and filling up my goretex socks Definatly my favorite tights though.

The Everest/South Pole type of conditions are not very applicable, being very cold and dry. Under these conditions you dont need waterproofing, just very effective windproofing. The humidity gradient results in optimium breathbility of gortex compared to more humid climates but there are other materials that work more effectively.

The classic Ventile mountaineering smock is still used by the British Antarctic Survey.

Tests on vintage mountaineering kit show that under Everest conditions it performs very well indeed.

We had somebody foaming at the mouth that it would not work.... I don't think anybody was claiming it was the best, just that they were very happy with it, and was amazed by it, that's when the arguments erupted. XCR is a very good performing material, maybe not the best in lab, however it still works very well outdoors.

I have thought about those MEC whirl Wind tights, they seem like a good Idea. I have a Gore 3 Layer pant that I use most times. I just wanted to try these new Samurai pants out. I have a Soft shell cycling jacket that has a windproof/water resistant front and a very breathable spandex like material on the back and on the back of the arms. It works very well, although you do have to have a high aerobic intensity with it, other wise it can be a cold jacket to be wearing, depending on the conditions.

The eVent jacket I would like for the summer rides where the jacket is even lighter and more packable than the AMA Dab lam XCR. I would like to be able to carry it in a jersey pocket. I would still use the XCR jacket for the majority of my outdoor activities, the cycling jacket would be more duty specific.

Nice link on the Vintage Kit I wonder if they ever were to find Mallory's Kodak camera if the pictures would be intact... Doubtful, but you never know...

The real technological advance that allowed people to climb big mountains were:
1. Ultralight mountain boots designed for one expedition only.
2. Nylon ropes
3 Lightweight breathing gear.

All of these first appeared in the successful 1993 attempt; they really did use some cutting edge technology.

So 20th Century clothing equipment is still good enough to Climb Everest with....

• TNF Apex Bionic
• Patagonia Figure 4
• TNF Sentinel
• Sugoi Team Radius

Have ridden with them all. They work great depending on the conditions.