Gore-tex XCR that is! I have a new love, and her name is gore-tex. Seriously, this stuff is amazing. I can run through creeks in my gore-tex shoes without a drip of water reaching my socks. It breathes well, and looks cool. Basically it is the best material I have ever worn.

I recently purchased a Orage Maverick triple-layer gore-tex coat too. The thing was darned expensive, but honestly.. its worth every last penny. Looks great, windproof and waterproof. I literally ran my arm underwater for a while and nothing gets through. Amazing.

I really want some gore-tex gloves.... but those will have to wait. This stuff seems to be worth more than gold per oz.

Anyone else share my love?

Don't own anything yet made out of gore-tex... Haven't found the need, but I'm sure it's pretty amazing stuff, just wish it was a bit cheaper.

Gore-tex has tons of phtalates which are potent endocrine disruptors. Read: Cancer. Just to make sure you know.

endocrine disruptors? Well, at least I'll be dry when I get cancer

I hate Gore-Tex. Its what happens when people believe marketing over truth.
You do realize that EVERY waterproof material is able to held under a tap and not have water get thru dont you? Every waterproof material is also 100% windproof. I can put on a garbage bag and hold it under the tap also, same result.

A real test is doing an aerobic activity, such as cycling at a fast pace, in temperatures where you still sweat, and see how wet your base layer is after an hour or six. The plastic bag works well at temps near freezing since you hardly sweat at that temp, but at 60-65 degrees, wearing either goretex or a plastic bag, and cycling hard, most everyone will be soaked in sweat.

Goretex also relies on a difference of humidity on opposing sides of the fabric in order for the vapor transport (breathability) of the fabric to work. Which is why it breathes great when you wear it on days its not raining, but as soon as its raining on the outside, and your sweating on the inside, its vapor transport ends.

Heres a chart. I'll pick quite a few materials above goretex
https://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/...tex%20event%22

Heres another page with a good description of Goretex's history, its about 1/3 the way down the page
https://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Rainwear.htm

So i'm glad your happy with your purchase, but no i dont share your love of goretex. I choose a few other materials as much much better, they just dont have gore's billion dollars of marketing behind them

I love Gore-Tex! It's one of those things I like to collect.

I have a TNF AMA Dab-lam XCR that is made on 4 way stretch material, it's a fantastic piece. Light, breaths well, is storm proof, and allows unbelievable articulation with the stretch material.




I layer it with a Special Edition Seven Summits Apex jacket (Everest version).




I have been riding to work with an older Gore 3 layer TNF Kitchatna jacket and it's been great. It has Pit zips that really allow for great ventilation in the warmer conditions.

Today it was -7C on the ride home, so I packed the shell and just wore a TNF Sentinel Windstopper fleece jacket, with a 100 wt fleece under it. It was a great ride home

Your in Sask, its cold and dry, it would work well. Out here in the rainforest, we get different results
I will say its usually used by companies that do make good jackets so workmanship, fit, etc is usually top notch. Its just unfortunate it doesnt work well for cycling in the rain

It worked very well for a rainy summer ride I had this year. Good design and ventilation is key. I just opened the pocket zips and let the mesh liner evacuate the moisture.

Even my older 3 layers work well because they have good designs like full lengh pit zips, and mesh lined pockects. Sure in a full aerobic situation I use something else more cycling specific, but these work well in a pinch.

Yes it works in a pinch, but the OP was praising it as the best material ever made. Thats where i pipe up and say not even close

There are many materials a LOT better, just none marketed to even a fraction of the hype. It is a decent material, but I spend 2 hours a day commuting, 5 days a week, all year round. With 2 mountains between me and my work i get a good workout. And every year it seems we set new rain records. A couple weeks is all it takes to find out how well a material works without any doubt. I have not tried the original goretex lately, but I have tried the newer incarnations. Ive also tried other materials, and found some far superior.

Good designs like full length pit zips I agree are essential. But a material that breathes 2x better than goretex xcr, and also with full length pit zips, is still a lot better

Picked up one of those in mainland china for cheap cheap cheap last year.

I am 70% sure it's fake.

In a steady rain breathability has no purpose even if it existed. The humidity is 100%, so there is no humidity gradient to move saturated air out of your jacket. If you open the zips, you are just exchanging the saturated air in the jacket with saturated air from outside the jacket.

I somehow find myself agreeing with both the proponents and naysayers of goretex on this thread. And I do have at least one other jacket that is real goretex.

If I was to only have one jacket, I wouldn't trade it for anything.... Event or otherwise

Ghetto, if it works for you, great


Here is a picture of me hiking the West Coast trail. It was a full on rain while hiking on the sandy beach. This is an aerobic workout in it's self, the sand really taps your forward momentum with a heavy pack attached. I was wearing the TNF 3 layer and was fully comfortable and dry. I remember feeling giddy as a kid with puddle jumpers

Ok... relying on a difference in water saturation levels is a requirement for any water wicking. This is just physics and chemistry. Also, goretex wasnt really designed to be worn in 65 degree weather at least not the products I have. The beauty of gore-tex is that it doesnt have to have a coating to be waterproof and windproof. The 9billion pores per inch do it on their own. Most gore fabrics are layered, and have a coating on the outside fr improved performance though. Lastly, gore products dont lose their performance after being worn or washed.

There are a ton of waterproof products around... a plastic bag being one of them... but a plastic bag definitely does not have the same properties of goretex.

ViperZ, you've even wearing goretex GORTS in that picture! (gaiters and shorts...)

I think goretex IS overrated.Goretex is sweaty as a sockliner (what goretex footwear has) and is sweaty as a coat. In FULL conditions a goretex storm shell is pretty sweet though.

I've got a pretty good outdoor resume (I served on the Tacoma Mountain Rescue team, volunteered on Mount Rainier with the Park Service for years doing winter patrols on the mountain, tested gear for MSR, established a regional climber's gathering, among other things) spend plenty of my life out of doors, and in my experience, the less I wear the WB shells, the more comfortable I am.

NON-waterproof shell technology is what provides a greater comfort range for active sports. Not Goretex. I am absolutely SOLD on %100 Gore Windstopper N2S touques for under the bike helmet though....

Gore-tex socks too that you can't see


On one of my many hikes of Jasper's Skyline Trail, it rained solid for 4 days. Believe me, with out a Goretex Jacket or WB, I think you would have been miserable.

I always bring a waterproof shell and hardly ever wear them anymore. Winter days, hardly ever. constant steady rain, sure. It rained four days on my november bike ride over the Cascade mountains, and I wore the waterproofs some, took them off as much as possible too. An outdoor axiom I've discovered is:

the LESS you wear your waterproofs, the MORE comfortable you'll be, overall.

I scored a $200 Gore Bikewear XCR jacket off of Ebay for about $70. It's 100% waterproof, no doubt, but I've used it for the past few months commuting over an hour, five days/week in Southern Maine. Considering a garbage bag is also waterproof, a $200 jacket had better add a whole lot to justify the hype.
This particular jacket may be just a bad model, I haven't tried their other jackets, pants, or booties.
The fit of the XCR Century jacket was awful. I'd say a size small would probably best fit a shorter person like Mike Tyson. The neck opening was cavernous. This allows rain and wind enter in. Many other jackets have a more realiztic cut or at least the feature a neck shock cord to snug the opening. I had to use the zip on hoods drawcords rigged around the neck to serve this function. Other jackets add on softer material around the collar, but the Century is just bare Gortex.
The arms are also cut way too wide. It feels like you're wearing a poncho. Any wind billows the arms out and makes you look like you're a skydiver, flapping and puffing out. They aren't even articulated as many comparably priced bike-specific jackets are.
Second, this has to be the most featureless $200 rain jacket on the market. No alternative form of ventilation. No pit zips, no baffles, no vents.
Most jackets designed for a commuting cyclist would include cheap, easy extras like large zippers pulls, something you need if you have any intention of using the main zipper, rear zipper, or pocket zips while riding. The Gore jacket has those tiny pulls that only a small childs hands could grasp.
Strangely, although it's waterproof, it still seems to be ineffective as a windblocker. The one good feature probably included out of necessity was the mesh lining. This goes a long way towards allowing some airflow and evaporation at the skin level.
I got this jacket as a replacement for a Showers Pass Century jacket make out of Pertex. The fit of the Showers Pass jacket was perfect. It has enough room for baselayers, but still trim. It has both a waist and neck drawcord. It had a soft high collar. It had pitzips that were smartly positioned so that even when opened, they wouldn't get flooded with run-off water. The only problem was that the pertex material was a sauna, no vapor permeability. I returned it and am going to try their Event fabric Elite jacket. Although with winter on us, I'll probably have to wait four months till I'll use it.

1) Did you even read the links I posted? If so, or if you researched it from sources other than gore or companies that use gore, you would see that your above statement is false. Goretex has a pu coating on it in order to protect it from contaminating. And that coating does wear off with washing.

2) If gore's membrane and 9 billion holes actually worked, it wouldnt need an 'extra coating' for 'improved performance'. Its competition doesnt need extra coatings to work, why does goretex? And adding another coating definatly does not improve breathability, it reduces it. Simple science as you say. Actually, goretex's membrane does block water, 100% of it, just like every other companies waterproof membrane. It just stops working when contaminated, so they add a protective layer.

Thats marketing at work. Our poduct sucks so we have to add a second layer to do what we claimed the firt layer did, then lets say that the second layer is there for increased performance, and charge more !

3) Every waterproof material other than simple nylon windbreakers with a drw coating on them use a membrane, washing does nothing to any of them. Goretex is not special in that regard as you indicated.

4) You mentioned that nothing breathed well as the difference in humidity levels approached the same across both layers. Again, did you even look at the links? Appears you didnt. If you had you would have seen that Gore like many others is dependant on the relative humidity, but that there are several materials that are not dependant on it. In other words, they continue to transport moisture across the layer even in times when the humidity is similar, as in sweating when its raining.

As i said previous. Goretex is waterproof. It blocks water, same as every other waterproof. It just does not perform in the breathability department as well as others. Its not bad, iits just middle of the pack is all. But it is usually priced at premium. You can pay top dollar for mediocre performance, i'll pay half price for 2x the performance.

Its middle of the pack performance is not just personal opinion, its been proven in multiple comparison tests, its proven in lab tests by american army materials test lab which is what the posted link is.

Edit: all the materials that beat goretex are still plastic membranes. They still dont breath as well as a softshell, or eliminate that clammy feeling. They are not miracle materials. As Bekologist said, a softshell is usually the best in all but steady rain..

Please elaborate. What materials do you like and why?

I have hiked in heavy, all-day Scottish mountain rain using a cheap pvc jacket from a market stall. I stayed dry and by judicious use of zips and poppers, relatively comfortable inside.

On the bike I have used non-breathable nylon waterproof, generic breathable nylon, several vented gortex types, pile and pertex and paramo system.
The wettest ride was an all-day alpine downpour with 2 big climbs and descents. The rain was creeping inside the gortex by the end of the day, up the arms but I was OK.
The worst ever rain ride was about 4 hrs of heavy Irish rain with my most expensive gortex. It had lost its beading with use so soaked up the rain, weighed a ton, felt yucky, lost all breathability and took ages to dry. Gortex does depend on the surface beading for breathability (not waterproofing).

My best and current waterproof by Paramo is really for winter use, it is too warm for summer and too bulky for touring but for cool, 3 season use it is unbeatable. It is much more breathable than any membrane system and continues to work in high humidity.

I suppose we are all creatures of different natures, however one thing I like to do while hiking is to wear the Gore as a wind shell, on top of just a hiking tee. I find a lot of times this is more comfortable over a fleece jacket as it doesn't have the bulk (I do pack along a windstopper fleece) but can provide more protection from the elements. I always have the shell handy in my shovit pocket of my pack. This way I can put it on in a moments notice when the weather changes, as it always does. It actually is my second layer while hiking, meanwhile the Fleece jacket is buried in the my pack for later in the day once camp is setup and our effort levels are lower A 3 layer pant is usually my only pair of pants, so it's those for pants or shorts. I find I'm very comfortable in the backcountry like this.




We all seem to like to use our shells even if it isn't raining


3 layer Shell with shorts


In our WB shells at treeline and happy


Times when they are indespensable





Suffice to say Gore can be over kill for cycling, but it still works, and can work very well, depending on the design of the garment. Lab tests may show other fabrics are more breathable, however in the end I know what works for me and I would not give any of it up, regardless what a lab test stated. At this time I would use nothing less if I was to only have one. YMMV

It was me made the claim that breathability was NOT RELEVANT as the outside humidity reached 100%, as it would in a steady rain, and I based my statement on both my experience and the documents you linked to, which I first read over a year ago.

The document you provided shows the while goretex lags behind some of the other fabrics in vapour transport, it improves at higher humidities, but stays lower than some of the newer fabrics. But none of them are beneficial in a steady rain, as I have never heard of any fabric that can PREFERENTIALLY move water vapour OUTWARDS, and I know of no basis for this in physics without some type of active system. Hence, the vapour flux shown on those graphs means that although water vapour can freely pass back and forth, the inside won't end up DRIER than the outside, and if it's raining, you sweat won't evaporate.

Again, I have some reservations about the performance of goretex for the pricepoint and I am curious about some of these alternatives. But lets not overdo the goretex hatin'.

Honestly, those tests dont really tell me all that much. Its in lab conditions, and only takes into account water vapor diffusion. There is no measurement in there for durability, comfort,price, ergonomics, style, availability, warranty...etc. Its a lab test, and like anything else being "tested" I could show whatever I want. Im an engineering analyst as my profession, and the joke we always say to ourselves is "What answer are you looking for?" when someone comes at us with a problem. Im not saying that isnt a valid water vapor diffusion study... im just saying that if I bought a material strictly based on that test I might not be buying the best thing. (not saying Gore is the best either)

I think you have a lot of valid points, and gore is very pricey. I will say though, it performs better than I ever imagined. I love my trail shoes(Montrail) and they are durable as all hell. I havent had my Orage shell long enough to comment. I have only worn it 2x in fact, but to me... I have already been loving it.

My Goretex hate is due to their marketing and pricing. Mainly on jackets and pants. I use goretex socks and gators happily. I just hate paying a price premium for a lesser product that has a higher marketing budget. And im not out to destroy the mighty gore empire. I just find it frustrating when you inform people of better and cheaper alternatives, and they respond back that your wrong and cite marketing literature as their proof

The linked chart that shows material breathability has several that are flat line which to me shows they work independant of relative humidity. My understanding is it is the differance in temperature as the method for moving vapor from inside to out only. The only information online i can find about the transport is from gore's competition, ie event or torent and others, and ive tried to not use competitions marketing hype as proof against gores marketing hype

Viperz. Saying you would only use goretex because you deem there is no better, is the exact same as a halogen light owner claiming there is no better light system made for a bike. While you have a hid system and know for a fact it outperforms a halogen by a longshot. But no matter how much proof you show the halogen owner, who has never used a hid, they refuse to be swayed from their incorect view. In the end you just sit back and laugh at how people can be so determined to believe in inferior products. Thats my current position

Edit:Ranger5oh, yes i agree about the lab test. we have no idea if it is relevent to humans sweating in the rain while wearing it. Its not the only source that shows goretex is outperformed though. There are other independant tests/reviews/comparasins out there for anyone who wants to research it. I also agree that there are many other factors like availability and fit. For many cold dry climates with occasional rain, goretex is great. Anyways, glad you enjoy your purchase. try ibexwear softshells next

Goretex and pile jackets is like, so totally 80's. And there are much better jackets to wear when it ISN'T raining.

tough to argue about that with a guy in gorts though