I look in on those threads but there they are rather sharp edged.

As far as bicycle safety goes, M Wilson, a local bike coordinator here in C. FL, did a study on all of the cycling fatalities in FL in, I think, 1999. He found out of something like 114 fatalities, only 4 of the riders was not breaking some traffic law when they were killed. It is not that all of them were at fault but the vast majority of them contributed to it. Nearly half of the bike fatalities occur at night and the vast majority of those are people without lights or reflectors!

It is a little bit like saying RR crossings are dangerous and then finding out that the vast majority of the people who get hit are going around the barriers whilst the train is approaching. How do you spell R O A D K I L L ?

Clearly, there is a risk to cycling. But it is far less than it appears from the statistics because sane cyclists don't do those things (and I assume everyone here is sane). Even with the lunatics thrown in, cycling is about half as dangerous as driving per hour. I know it does not FEEL that way but then again in my car I an insulated from reality and a near miss on a bike scares me in a way that it does not in a car.