Oh well, like I said, I haven't been able to do them for about four years, and I could never do them heavy anyway. I used to like them as a good variation, coz I found they hit the middle of my middle delts.

I've got a good "variety exercise" for delts, but it looks a bit dicky: dumbell presses, but with a supine grip that doesn't rotate -- so the dumbells stay parallel to each other for the whole movement. A lot of elbow flexion though, so if you have dodgey elbows.....

My iron pumping has become a joke. I usually just wait for a rainy day when I can't ride, so I only do them about once every 5 or 6 days, and do them all at once -- at home! This includes no legs, and a laughable lat workout, invloving about 5 sets of chin-ups on the pergola