rumrunn6

only in San Fran

kickstart

Some people just want to "protest" without any real thought or concern for the outcome.

lostarchitect 

???

Seems to me the outcome was exactly what they wanted.

kickstart

They have Idaho stop laws now? Motorists respect cyclists now? Police will no longer ticket cyclists breaking the law??

CliffordK

I'll stop for cars and pedestrians.
I'll go if the coast is clear.

I don't see how stopping longer would have any detrimental effect on traffic... unless people are playing a game riding around the block and forcing cars to stop longer. "taking the lane"? When cars could simply roll up next to the rider at the stop sign if they're going straight.

Perhaps pushing those bike crossing buttons slows traffic flow a bit as the signals are timed for pedestrians. Actually I like to take the round-about in Springfield because all of those flashing light buttons are a pain, I'm not convinced of their safety, and I think traffic flow is better when moving with the traffic. I avoid a left hand turn at the roundabout as it is just bothersome.

TobinH

It's the opposite, actually. People without any real thought or concern do not protest.

kickstart

Yeah, right.......

Yet when there were WTO protests in Seattle, many of the "protesters" interviewed didn't even know what WTO stood for.

Robert C

1999? That is the best you can come up with? Things were calm until the police rioted. Further, most of the participants, and observers, realize that the WTO Riot, or Battle of Seattle was a success. Prior to that most people were unaware of the downside of Globalization. The 1999 incident turned the discussion to one that included concerns, not just cheer-leading.

Not all successes look the same.

As far as the recent protest ride in SF, it seems to have raised awareness of the inapplicability of some traffic laws. No, it did not bring about instant change; however, it raised awareness.

kickstart

I used an example of something I witnesses firsthand, rather than gleaned off the internet.

TobinH

That's interesting logic. So If I can find some individuals in a movement who are less fully informed than I feel they should be, that's enough to make my conclusions.

I suppose so long as you stick with words like 'some' or 'many' you can suggest whatever you like.

kickstart

My, personal experience was the bad luck of working that night on a businesses remodel project, and having to protect my work truck fending off "protesters" with a rake, a rather frightening and disturbing experience. There were some protesters in the lead, but the other 90% were fools running wild.

The cycling community needs the support of the public, acting the fool and intentionally pissing people off isn't the way to do it, there's too many innocent victims.

rumrunn6

was this a protest too? was it legal? did it make a point as well? Man rides bicycle on interstate during Boston rush hour

https://www.boston.com/news/2015/08/0...ure_stack_6_hp

TobinH

90%?

TobinH

Was it?

lostarchitect 

Yes, that's what they expected would happen, the laws would magically change instantly! The police would change their guidelines in the blink of an eye!

You can't have a serious discussion if you are disingenuous. The expected outcome was to tie up traffic and thus raise awareness of the issue. To have some people think, "Hmm, maybe the Idaho stop isn't a bad idea." The expected outcome was not to effect instant change. You know this. Don't act dumb.

lostarchitect 

I'm sure he counted them and saw all parts of the protest, right? No way he would just make that up!

TobinH

He must have, I'm just curious about his methods. Otherwise, the posts are pure nonsense of course.

jfowler85

" 'Stop signs are major hindrance to bike safety and have an impact on pedestrian safety,' Avalos added"



Leave it up to SF to come up with something like this. All this asinine stunt shows is that lines get really long when a bunch of people pile up behind a single stop sign.

In CA is legal to filter, so why are they all single file? And why only use one stop sign per 100 cyclists instead of dispersing throughout side streets?

Roads are purpose built for cars, not bay area hipster cyclists. It is up to the cyclist to conform to the existing laws and rules, not vice versa.

I absolutely adore the bay area, but you couldn't pay me enough to live there because of dumbness like this.

kickstart

A few people in the lead were carrying signs and chanting slogrns, the majority that followed were obviously just out for a good time, vandalizing proprietary, or otherwise getting off being rambunctious.

Seems like the truth is a bitter pill to swallow for some.

TobinH

"majority"? 90% is certainly a majority, but I wonder about the terminology change.

TobinH

Hmm, another interesting academic. Do you disagree that the population of an area should have input regarding the laws with which they are governed? I suppose you must not know very much about the US - I certainly don't either - but generally its history has shown that civil engagement has been effective in creating meaningful change. A protest is rarely carried out with the aim of maximizing convenience, as this would run counter to its goals. Your examples may be legal, but so is what was done in the protest.

Now that you know that perhaps your views will change.

jfowler85

I'm guessing you've never spent time around SF.

kickstart

I suppose ones point of view would make semantics more important.....to those who believe that the end justifies the means, but are unwilling to acknowledge the negative impact on the innocent, or those they supposedly represent.

Robert C

I have spent quite a bit of time in and around SF; however not as much lately, as my family members there have moved to Oakland. By the way, roads predated cars by a longshot. Roads are for people. It is true that in, very, recent times people have primarily traveled on roads in cars; but it does not change the reality that roads are for people, not cars.

kickstart

Or appreciate the difference between fighting social injustice, and spoiled brats who don't like getting their wrists slapped when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.


And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.