7-time world champion triathlete killed by vehicle
#26
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please.
a worthwhile accident analysis would initially focus on factors related to the driver, vehicle, site conditions...
your comment that intends place blame on the victim's attire is pitifully shameless.
on thurs, I was riding in a dedicated bike lane and was struck from behind by a car that neither slowed before nor stopped after impact.
do you need to know the color of my jersey to determine if I contributed to the situation?
a worthwhile accident analysis would initially focus on factors related to the driver, vehicle, site conditions...
your comment that intends place blame on the victim's attire is pitifully shameless.
on thurs, I was riding in a dedicated bike lane and was struck from behind by a car that neither slowed before nor stopped after impact.
do you need to know the color of my jersey to determine if I contributed to the situation?
Here's how I see it. This was a former World Champion cyclist who got hit. She probably had the experience, judgment and skills more than any of us, yet still it happened. We don't want to believe that it can be just random chance; we want to think that something that we do that is different or better than what the victim did, would have avoided it. I've seen this same question with jerseys, lights, helmets, was the rider on the shoulder, taking the center of the lane, everything you can come up with which objectively would have had no impact on events. But it's human nature in reassuring ourselves, not victim blaming.
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"What color jersey was she wearing? I have stopped wearing jerseys that are 1) not yellow or very bright orange and 2) have patterns based on my experience, both as a rider and a driver. As a driver, I know there are light situations where red is almost invisible, even in broad daylight and patterns in mottled sunlight (like through trees) can be great camouflage."
And I don't see that comment as implying the victim was to blame in any way. I'm merely acknowledging that dayglo is more visible and I should consider it to improve my chances of being seen, even if it isn't my preferred color.
Last edited by canklecat; 08-30-16 at 04:25 PM.
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Though I too think it has little to do with the circumstances of this incident, my personal mantra is there is no such thing as too conspicuous.
Last edited by bobwysiwyg; 08-30-16 at 07:03 PM.
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None of them have an 800 lumen DesignShine on them. In the area I'm going to be in, I want something that can slap you in the face and take names.
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I stopped and took photos of the scene on the way home. If you look at the first, you will see that the car that did the passing will have just come around an S curve that crosses a railroad track, crested a slight hill and just entered the passing zone. Odds are that he took little to no time to check for oncoming traffic. Traffic often goes pretty slowly around that curve and people are often very impatient and gun it right there. I keep a weather eye open anywhere within a half mile of that crossing and in fact have posted one video of stupid driver tricks from right there.
Sorry the first photo is a bit grim. The two orange swoops near the flowers are, I assume the location of the tires marked by the police.
The forum has shrunk the photo significantly. Here's a link to the original so you can zoom in and see the road signs and hill properly. The "passing zone" sign you can see the back side of on the left (north) side of the road.
https://goo.gl/photos/HJtns1b8N5i1hkSZ9
Sorry the first photo is a bit grim. The two orange swoops near the flowers are, I assume the location of the tires marked by the police.
The forum has shrunk the photo significantly. Here's a link to the original so you can zoom in and see the road signs and hill properly. The "passing zone" sign you can see the back side of on the left (north) side of the road.
https://goo.gl/photos/HJtns1b8N5i1hkSZ9
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Last edited by ItsJustMe; 08-30-16 at 06:58 PM.
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Looks to me there was plenty of distance to get a good view ahead had the driver not been following the vehicle ahead too closely.
#33
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Maybe "...triathlete killed in bike crash" in the headline sounds more exciting than "...triathlete killed in vehicle accident". The latter sounds more tragic but just like any other traffic accident, but "triathlete killed in bike crash" gives the impression that her exceptional passion finally did her in.
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Street view link on what I think is very close to the exact spot.
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Last edited by ItsJustMe; 08-30-16 at 07:15 PM.
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I only took extra visibility precautions for traffic from the rear and used standard battery powered light for front as the highway had a median strip and few cross roads to concern me.
#36
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I stopped and took photos of the scene on the way home. If you look at the first, you will see that the car that did the passing will have just come around an S curve that crosses a railroad track, crested a slight hill and just entered the passing zone. Odds are that he took little to no time to check for oncoming traffic. Traffic often goes pretty slowly around that curve and people are often very impatient and gun it right there. I keep a weather eye open anywhere within a half mile of that crossing and in fact have posted one video of stupid driver tricks from right there.
Sorry the first photo is a bit grim. The two orange swoops near the flowers are, I assume the location of the tires marked by the police.
The forum has shrunk the photo significantly. Here's a link to the original so you can zoom in and see the road signs and hill properly. The "passing zone" sign you can see the back side of on the left (north) side of the road.
https://goo.gl/photos/HJtns1b8N5i1hkSZ9
Sorry the first photo is a bit grim. The two orange swoops near the flowers are, I assume the location of the tires marked by the police.
The forum has shrunk the photo significantly. Here's a link to the original so you can zoom in and see the road signs and hill properly. The "passing zone" sign you can see the back side of on the left (north) side of the road.
https://goo.gl/photos/HJtns1b8N5i1hkSZ9
#38
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Looks like a route I tried -- once -- a couple of weeks ago. Never again. It looked okay via Google maps and street view, but turned out to be very dangerous. Only reason I kept going was because I was committed. There was no other route and backtracking would have exposed me to several more miles of the same thing. So I just plowed ahead, fingers crossed.
This is just a brief low-resolution snippet of a van nearly colliding with an oncoming vehicle while attempting an unnecessarily dangerous pass. And I recorded half a dozen more similar passes along this route. Unfortunately my camera didn't correct for rotation so it recorded at too low a resolution to capture most license plate detail.
I considered taking the lane, but it's probably best I didn't. I suspect the drivers would have passed anyway, and in this specific example almost certainly would have collided head on with the oncoming vehicle.
Live and learn. This time.
This is just a brief low-resolution snippet of a van nearly colliding with an oncoming vehicle while attempting an unnecessarily dangerous pass. And I recorded half a dozen more similar passes along this route. Unfortunately my camera didn't correct for rotation so it recorded at too low a resolution to capture most license plate detail.
I considered taking the lane, but it's probably best I didn't. I suspect the drivers would have passed anyway, and in this specific example almost certainly would have collided head on with the oncoming vehicle.
Live and learn. This time.
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I and a friend of mine ride our bicycles a lot out in the country. I had a heck of a time getting him to stop riding lane center up hills on a two lane road. I kept telling him thatthere's a good chance someone coming the opposite direction would try an make an illegal pass of another vehicle ahed of it on the backside of the hill where he couldn't see it. Sure enough one day exactly that happened but very fortunately we were far enough from the crest of that hill that we were able to bail onto the shoulder. Never mind what the laws say, bicyclists are extremely vulnerable and we need to be extra vigilante and prepared to deal with idiot inattentive or reckless motorists. I often wonder how many of theses struck from behind bicycling injuries could have been avoidedi if the bicyclist had been using a rear view mirror.
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I ride this road pretty often, and honestly, it's one of the safest roads in the area for riding. No roads here have any shoulder at all, and they're all 50 or 55 MPH speed limits. The sight lines on this road are very good, mostly level, few curves. I agree there was no excuse for this crash. This happened in the morning, she was heading east, into the sun, the driver that struck her was heading west. So that's no excuse either, in fact it makes it even worse, there should have been absolutely perfect lighting and perfect sightlines to see her.
Please be assured that I am not victim blaming here, but as someone who has ridden close to 40,000 miles commuting within 10 miles of this location in the last 12 years, I ride either an upright or I'm on the hoods on my road bike. I don't ride in the drops because I have seen too much of this kind of BS and I want to keep my eyes on every car within a half mile of me, coming, going or in driveways and side-streets. I use a mirror and know where all the idiot containers on the road around me are at all times and which ones are being particularly stupid. I have at least twice had this exact scenario happen to me, and in both cases I saw it coming well in advance and moved to the side (and let my AirZound fly as they went past). So yeah, 100% the driver's fault, but as with all situations on the road, assume screaming incompetence on the part of everyone else, keep your eyes open and have a plan (which is almost always "head for the ditch"). I've also had the reverse happen, where people are passing me on a blind hill then have to swerve violently to avoid a front-end collisioin with an oncoming car. One was a sports car that fishtailed for almost a quarter mile before he got it back under control.
Please be assured that I am not victim blaming here, but as someone who has ridden close to 40,000 miles commuting within 10 miles of this location in the last 12 years, I ride either an upright or I'm on the hoods on my road bike. I don't ride in the drops because I have seen too much of this kind of BS and I want to keep my eyes on every car within a half mile of me, coming, going or in driveways and side-streets. I use a mirror and know where all the idiot containers on the road around me are at all times and which ones are being particularly stupid. I have at least twice had this exact scenario happen to me, and in both cases I saw it coming well in advance and moved to the side (and let my AirZound fly as they went past). So yeah, 100% the driver's fault, but as with all situations on the road, assume screaming incompetence on the part of everyone else, keep your eyes open and have a plan (which is almost always "head for the ditch"). I've also had the reverse happen, where people are passing me on a blind hill then have to swerve violently to avoid a front-end collisioin with an oncoming car. One was a sports car that fishtailed for almost a quarter mile before he got it back under control.
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#42
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I ride this road pretty often, and honestly, it's one of the safest roads in the area for riding. No roads here have any shoulder at all, and they're all 50 or 55 MPH speed limits. The sight lines on this road are very good, mostly level, few curves. I agree there was no excuse for this crash. This happened in the morning, she was heading east, into the sun, the driver that struck her was heading west. So that's no excuse either, in fact it makes it even worse, there should have been absolutely perfect lighting and perfect sightlines to see her.
Please be assured that I am not victim blaming here, but as someone who has ridden close to 40,000 miles commuting within 10 miles of this location in the last 12 years, I ride either an upright or I'm on the hoods on my road bike. I don't ride in the drops because I have seen too much of this kind of BS and I want to keep my eyes on every car within a half mile of me, coming, going or in driveways and side-streets. I use a mirror and know where all the idiot containers on the road around me are at all times and which ones are being particularly stupid. I have at least twice had this exact scenario happen to me, and in both cases I saw it coming well in advance and moved to the side (and let my AirZound fly as they went past). So yeah, 100% the driver's fault, but as with all situations on the road, assume screaming incompetence on the part of everyone else, keep your eyes open and have a plan (which is almost always "head for the ditch"). I've also had the reverse happen, where people are passing me on a blind hill then have to swerve violently to avoid a front-end collisioin with an oncoming car. One was a sports car that fishtailed for almost a quarter mile before he got it back under control.
Please be assured that I am not victim blaming here, but as someone who has ridden close to 40,000 miles commuting within 10 miles of this location in the last 12 years, I ride either an upright or I'm on the hoods on my road bike. I don't ride in the drops because I have seen too much of this kind of BS and I want to keep my eyes on every car within a half mile of me, coming, going or in driveways and side-streets. I use a mirror and know where all the idiot containers on the road around me are at all times and which ones are being particularly stupid. I have at least twice had this exact scenario happen to me, and in both cases I saw it coming well in advance and moved to the side (and let my AirZound fly as they went past). So yeah, 100% the driver's fault, but as with all situations on the road, assume screaming incompetence on the part of everyone else, keep your eyes open and have a plan (which is almost always "head for the ditch"). I've also had the reverse happen, where people are passing me on a blind hill then have to swerve violently to avoid a front-end collisioin with an oncoming car. One was a sports car that fishtailed for almost a quarter mile before he got it back under control.
#43
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This is getting too close to victim -blaming. How about, "Where was the driver going?" "How fast was the driver going?""Was the driver in a passing zone?" "Was the driver in compliance with any restrictions on his license(eyeglasses)?" "How could the driver NOT see the bicyclist?" "Why did the driver not take emergency evasive action such as slamming on his brakes to avoid hitting a vulnerable user?"
I do not know that particular road, but I used to ride the county roads west and north of Ann Arbor and have driven others in the area. Those roads are typically straight, due east-west or north-south, 2 lane with well defined area for passing, not particularly wide and with no shoulder. You want to be visible from far enough away that a car can decide not to initiate his pass or be willing to leave the roadway if he does. Saying what the cyclists were wearing and using for lights might help other riders to know what might or might not work.
It is my simplistic belief that doing the right thing that might help someone else, whether or not I ever find out I helped out is what I am supposed to do. If I were a reported, I would consider it a given that I was to ask a couple of questions and include one sentence or two on clothes and lights used. Perhaps in the same paragraph where I described the road and directions traveled.
This is a case where both parties made premeditated choices. The outcome of those choices was bad. Is it wrong to point out with no judgement attached what those choices were? Isn't that just journalism at its best?
Ben
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RIP..
I don't think anything will ever change because there is no reason for drivers to slow down and drive safely. There are no consequences if you run down and kill an innocent person because it was an "accident". Yes the person is sorry, there are almost never charges made against the driver unless they were under the influence of something.
If you run a stop sign and you run into a person, as long as you weren’t impaired by an illegal substance, then it’s like you ran a stop sign and didn’t hit a person,” explained Martin Miller, traffic sergeant
Criminal charges of vehicular homicide and reckless driving, said Assistant State Attorney Michael Hunt, can only be brought if culpable negligence, defined as the reckless disregard for human life, can be proven.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/2016/06/03/drivers-face-few-consequences-cycling-fatalities/84694510/
I don't think anything will ever change because there is no reason for drivers to slow down and drive safely. There are no consequences if you run down and kill an innocent person because it was an "accident". Yes the person is sorry, there are almost never charges made against the driver unless they were under the influence of something.
If you run a stop sign and you run into a person, as long as you weren’t impaired by an illegal substance, then it’s like you ran a stop sign and didn’t hit a person,” explained Martin Miller, traffic sergeant
Criminal charges of vehicular homicide and reckless driving, said Assistant State Attorney Michael Hunt, can only be brought if culpable negligence, defined as the reckless disregard for human life, can be proven.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/2016/06/03/drivers-face-few-consequences-cycling-fatalities/84694510/
#45
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I suppose one thing about passing is that I feel it is safer for cars to be spread out, rather than tailgating each other.
I'm frequently surprised when I'm expecting one car coming up behind me, and there is a second one following closely behind (often so close that their forward view would have been impaired).
I'm frequently surprised when I'm expecting one car coming up behind me, and there is a second one following closely behind (often so close that their forward view would have been impaired).
And I might add is it is safer for a line of CYCLISTS to be spread out as well, so that they can be passed one at a time. But no no no we want out "pace lines" and "drafting" privileges.
#46
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Looks like a route I tried -- once -- a couple of weeks ago. Never again. It looked okay via Google maps and street view, but turned out to be very dangerous. Only reason I kept going was because I was committed. There was no other route and backtracking would have exposed me to several more miles of the same thing. So I just plowed ahead, fingers crossed.
This is just a brief low-resolution snippet of a van nearly colliding with an oncoming vehicle while attempting an unnecessarily dangerous pass. And I recorded half a dozen more similar passes along this route. Unfortunately my camera didn't correct for rotation so it recorded at too low a resolution to capture most license plate detail.
I considered taking the lane, but it's probably best I didn't. I suspect the drivers would have passed anyway, and in this specific example almost certainly would have collided head on with the oncoming vehicle.
Live and learn. This time.
Dangerous pass, rural route
This is just a brief low-resolution snippet of a van nearly colliding with an oncoming vehicle while attempting an unnecessarily dangerous pass. And I recorded half a dozen more similar passes along this route. Unfortunately my camera didn't correct for rotation so it recorded at too low a resolution to capture most license plate detail.
I considered taking the lane, but it's probably best I didn't. I suspect the drivers would have passed anyway, and in this specific example almost certainly would have collided head on with the oncoming vehicle.
Live and learn. This time.
Dangerous pass, rural route
Incredible. From what can see 7 vehicles passed you and THREE OF THEM went into the other lane of oncoming traffic---across a double yellow line!---- and forced those vehicles basically off the roadway a bit so that they could get by! In the video, even without a rear view mirror, I could tell trouble was on its way when I saw those oncoming cars veer off the roadway.
It's what i meant by my post above this one...there is this thing called a BRAKE (or a break....hahahahah!) that they can use to slow down behind you before they finally decide to pass clearly, which most of the other cars appeared to be doing if they had the chance.
But what a pathetic road for cycling OR driving! Sheesh! Not even wide enough to PAINT a shoulder line! Keep in mind that there are good and bad roads for cycling just as there is for cars or trucks. Arf.
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RIP..
I don't think anything will ever change because there is no reason for drivers to slow down and drive safely. There are no consequences if you run down and kill an innocent person because it was an "accident". Yes the person is sorry, there are almost never charges made against the driver unless they were under the influence of something.
I don't think anything will ever change because there is no reason for drivers to slow down and drive safely. There are no consequences if you run down and kill an innocent person because it was an "accident". Yes the person is sorry, there are almost never charges made against the driver unless they were under the influence of something.
#48
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Oh, I haven't even shown the worst of it. That's just one brief snippet. It goes on and on like that for 10 minutes. One near-collision after another after another.
I didn't even realize how dangerous it was until last night when I reviewed the video, nearly two weeks later. I tend to get into an emotionless detachment zone while riding in traffic, so I hardly notice how many close calls there are. But before I ever venture out on the bike I go through this mental preparation to stay calm, focus on what I can actually do, and not get emotionally involved in what goes on around me.
But I saw in the video so many ridiculously dangerous passes I'm going to forward the video to local officials to encourage them to either enforcement existing speed and passing regulations, or to consider some other methods. It's not merely dangerous to cyclists. It's dangerous to other drivers and to school kids in the school zone in the middle of that route.
Oh, the best part? Even a school bus crossed the no-passing double yellow line to pass me, at a much higher speed than the 20-30 mph signs posted for that poorly marked section of road. Lovely.
I didn't even realize how dangerous it was until last night when I reviewed the video, nearly two weeks later. I tend to get into an emotionless detachment zone while riding in traffic, so I hardly notice how many close calls there are. But before I ever venture out on the bike I go through this mental preparation to stay calm, focus on what I can actually do, and not get emotionally involved in what goes on around me.
But I saw in the video so many ridiculously dangerous passes I'm going to forward the video to local officials to encourage them to either enforcement existing speed and passing regulations, or to consider some other methods. It's not merely dangerous to cyclists. It's dangerous to other drivers and to school kids in the school zone in the middle of that route.
Oh, the best part? Even a school bus crossed the no-passing double yellow line to pass me, at a much higher speed than the 20-30 mph signs posted for that poorly marked section of road. Lovely.
Last edited by canklecat; 08-31-16 at 10:55 AM.
#49
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Incredible. From what can see 7 vehicles passed you and THREE OF THEM went into the other lane of oncoming traffic---across a double yellow line!---- and forced those vehicles basically off the roadway a bit so that they could get by! In the video, even without a rear view mirror, I could tell trouble was on its way when I saw those oncoming cars veer off the roadway.
It's what i meant by my post above this one...there is this thing called a BRAKE (or a break....hahahahah!) that they can use to slow down behind you before they finally decide to pass clearly, which most of the other cars appeared to be doing if they had the chance.
But what a pathetic road for cycling OR driving! Sheesh! Not even wide enough to PAINT a shoulder line! Keep in mind that there are good and bad roads for cycling just as there is for cars or trucks. Arf.
It's what i meant by my post above this one...there is this thing called a BRAKE (or a break....hahahahah!) that they can use to slow down behind you before they finally decide to pass clearly, which most of the other cars appeared to be doing if they had the chance.
But what a pathetic road for cycling OR driving! Sheesh! Not even wide enough to PAINT a shoulder line! Keep in mind that there are good and bad roads for cycling just as there is for cars or trucks. Arf.
There are certainly better roads for cycling, but not here. I have to traverse about 12 miles of this sort of road to get to the first road that has a bike lane. There are a few only about 4 miles away that have a shoulder, but I'm not usually going that way.
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#50
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This is every day, every minute where I ride.... This is NORMAL here.
There are certainly better roads for cycling, but not here. I have to traverse about 12 miles of this sort of road to get to the first road that has a bike lane. There are a few only about 4 miles away that have a shoulder, but I'm not usually going that way.
There are certainly better roads for cycling, but not here. I have to traverse about 12 miles of this sort of road to get to the first road that has a bike lane. There are a few only about 4 miles away that have a shoulder, but I'm not usually going that way.
And I try to hit a friendly beep and thumbs up as I head back to the right, but often the riders are so occupied keeping an eye behind them I don't know if they notice or appreciate it.