phoebeisis

I thought Lane Controlling was supposed to be protective?
Get a Go Pro
Your video indicates you are holding this old fool-preventing his returning to his car.
Also he didn't stomp on your wheels/spokes- so bike is probably undamaged
Of course he will lie
claim he HAD to leave his car because you were blocking his way-perhaps "beating" on his car
It is too late for either of you to grow up
so get a Go Pro

AndrewHenle

The smug is strong in this one.

jimincalif

Good news is with the summons out he's already going to suffer some aggravation and have to retain an attorney which will cost him a few bucks.

Given the circumstances it looks like you did as well as could be hoped. Trying to not escalate while still defending yourself is the best approach, and getting some video evidence is even better. Hopefully other witnesses will provide strong statements to back you up. I've had just one instance where I thought something like this might happen, fortunately there was heavy traffic so I was able to keep several cars between us. I didn't have the presence of mind to pull out my phone and start recording though.

Good luck.

jefnvk

I'm confused where the OP needs to "grow up". By all accounts, he acted in a better manner than many here (myself probably included) would have.

Even if I presume he did something that would indicate he needed to "grow up", wouldn't putting those actions on a GoPro just harm him?

ItsJustMe

Assault means that you fear for your safety. I'd say that when someone gets out of the car yelling, yes, I would fear for my safety.

As soon as they touch you, it's battery.

Colnago Mixte

Don't forget conversion and trespass to chattels for throwing the bike in the bushes, and intentional infliction of emotional distress for the yelling.

Leisesturm

Andrew... riding FRAP is NOT entirely about safety. Americans are obsessed about THEIR safety and in seeking to preserve it at all costs they often lose it. You COULD indeed ride FRAP with 18" of clearance because the intention wouldn't be to allow an unsafe pass. The intention would be to leave the determination to trailing traffic. IOW give the idiot in the cage some credit. What a concept. You do it every day when you get in a car and drive down the street. You drive in the faith that no one in the oncoming traffic is feeling suicidal (or forgot their baby aspirin) and won't come over the double yellow with a closing speed of 110 miles per hour! With a car on your bumper as you grind up a hill your road placement speaks volumes. You know that and the other poster Phobeisis knows that your conduct IN THIS THREAD (we have no other insights) marks you as... immature. Own it. I was a kid being driven by my father somewhere when some inexperienced girl got into an accident with him. She was wrong, he was right, but he acted like such a *** that the cop let the girl go and threw the book at my father which caused no end of headaches for him (and me) for quite awhile after the incident. Sound familiar? I DOUBT that this is only your 2nd negative interaction with another human in the last six years. Do grow up before you reproduce.

phoebeisis

The too late to grow up comment-directed at both "combatants" was because:
1)The OP somehow managed to need a second account -for reasons that are unclear- my guess it is because of his penchant for getting in online dustups

2) Latest(reported) in the flesh dustup was with an old geezer!

Geez grandpa was wheezing so hard from the effort of pushing the bike into the weeds;I thought he was going to croak!

jefnvk

I can't comment on #1, but in regards to #2, he did not pick a fight with grandpa. Grandpa chose to initiate a fight with him. He did not go up to Grandpa's window and pull him out of the car, Grandpa got out of the car after harassing him and initiated the incident. I don't pick which people try to start fights with me, if I did, it would be no one.

If Grandpa croaked, it would have been his own doing. He probably figured a cyclist was an easy target to pick on, he was wrong (in this case).

I-Like-To-Bike

Just curious, does your health insurance cover the costs incurred of "going to the hospital to get yourself checked out" in the absence of any trauma, injury or symptoms of a medical problem?

satbuilder 

Looking at where this happened, the road looks like a lot of people would use this road as a cut through between Rte 15 and 7 to bypass a lot of the traffic in Leesburg. I would imagine it gets its fair share of traffic.

I would agree there really wasn't anywhere for you to pull over as there isn't anything but a ditch on the right side of the road, if where I'm looking is correct.

Having grown up in Northern Virginia, I drove a lot of those roads when younger, and many are really nothing more than paved dirt roads.

Shot of the approach to Rte 7:

Harmony Church Rd. by Kurt_W, on Flickr[/IMG]

AndrewHenle

FFS that's risible.

Calling you out for inane statements is immature?

Such as:

Wow. Straw man, FRAP preaching, and politicizing all in that one final sentence.


And NOW you have either the unmitigated gall or complete selfUNawareness to say I'm immature?

What color is the sky on your planet? It sure as heck ain't blue.

Yeah, two other posters to this very thread familiar with that very road think otherwise. But you, in the safety of your living room, having never even seen that road, know otherwise.

Yeah, sure. On a blind hill or just tens of feet from the stop sign at a T intersection. Yeah, that'd work.

You keep telling yourself that. You might even convince yourself once you lost the argument.

Better yet - keep posting crap like that so everyone can see that the only way you'd ever be able to count to 21 would to take your shoes and socks off, and then be forced to drop your pants.

So quit trying to claim some sort of moral superiority. I seriously doubt I'm the only one amused by that.

AndrewHenle

No, it's to be able to post identifying details about a dangerous driver without losing the anonymity of my other account.

You don't have any details, but you'll spew unsubstantiated BS like the north end of a southbound cow, and then claim I have a penchant for getting into online dustups?

I'm guessing your one BF account is on infinitely more ignore lists than all the online accounts I've ever had anywhere - combined.

How old are you?

Seriously - how old are you?

Using phrases like "old geezer" and "grandpa" like that makes you sound like a 13-year-old trying to impress your friends.

Leisesturm

This is the trouble with arguing with certain people. They seize on any wiggle in a counterargument and narrow the focus of the argument to the reductio ad absurdum. To defend the indefensible. Fine. I don't need any new life lessons. I am not the one who had to retrieve my road bike from a ditch! In fact I have never had to do that. Ever. I'm 60, odds are good that even without any additional wisdom or changes of attitude I will make it to the end of my cycling career without drama like what is being discussed. Others, not so much. Over and done.

AndrewHenle

Yeah, totally FRAP-able

Now imagine a dump truck on that road. Or a school bus.

AndrewHenle

This is your "wisdom": https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1330...7i13312!8i6656

Why do I think you don't have the stones to reply to that Google Street View image and say that FRAP on that road is safe?

Oh, yeah. Because if you did reply that way you'd be saying it's safe to ride FRAP on that road after seeing that pickup truck with about 1' of space from the double yellow line and 0' of space from the white fog line, near the crest of a blind hill to boot.

And you'd be clearly demonstrating your ridiculousness to everyone.

Go ahead. Go and post that you've viewed that link and that Harmony Church Road on the small blind hill approaching Hamilton and Rt 7 from the south can be safely ridden FRAP.

I dare you.

Hell, I'm not just daring you. I WANT you to.

AndrewHenle

I guess I've reduced Leisesturm to the absurd.





(Is that over the top? FFS in four days I'm already sick of his crapposts followed by claims of maturity and moral superiority)

phoebeisis

Fair enough-66.
Why not post the "old gentleman's" name?

I used old geezer and grandpa to emphasize the "risible" aspect of a fit younger person letting a senior citizen take his bike away.

No way would I have the courage to post a video of a foul mouthed old F$%3 taking my bike from me.
Risible-great word-hope you don't mind my borrowing it-thanks.


Post this guy's name
Safe bet this isn't his first time at bat.
Cops DA won't do anything-so post his name.

You need a Go Pro

phoebeisis

Jefnvk
No Go Pro means we really don't know what provoked gramps.
I suspect our hero doesn't have clean hands.
I've been riding streets highways-daily-for 50 years-never had anything remotely like that happen.
OP let grandpa take his bike -seems like he was an easy target
No idea why he allowed that
Manners-both sides- would help
OP should post the driver's name.

rachel120

"Why did she wear that dress? She knew what she was asking for."

"Why did she make him mad? She should have known he'd hit her."

Some of the comments aimed at the OP sound just the same. Some people are saying his conduct means he was asking for a beating. No, that's 100% on the motorist. No one asks for violence done to them.

No one is responsible for someone else's decisions to do wrong. Short of starting the fight, no one is responsible for the harm another chooses to do. Period.

AndrewHenle

Right now, posting the guys name does nothing. I honestly don't even know it yet - it'll be visible online once he's served and a court hearing is scheduled for real.

AFAIK he still hasn't been served. Trying to short-circuit the cops and the DAs at this point - or even appearing to - isn't going to help with hanging a conviction on him. I know that there's potential media interest should be a person of any import.

I too don't think this is the first time he's done this, or some other way to "teach that cyclist a lesson" a la that California doctor, and I'd bet a substantial sum that he's no stranger to punish passes.

I'd even go so far as to venture there's a really good chance that my taking the lane in that situation, and preventing the punish pass he planned to give me, is what set him off.

But I do think this is the first time he got caught on film.

I have to keep in mind that the goal is to hang a conviction on him, so that he winds up with a criminal record such that if he ever has a problem with a cyclist again the entire justice system will be looking at him with a jaundiced eye.

And I had a GoPro - it died. Then I got a PoV. It died. I now have two AirPro HDs that I got from Amazon for about $40 each when they were blowing them out - one for the front, one for the rear.

I had forgotten to charge them before this ride.

I gotta stop forgetting or deciding not to use those things. Go read the Aug issue of Spokes cycling online magazine (warning: PDF file...), starting on p 10. I was just going out for a recovery ride on the local bike trail, and a woman used a turn lane to try to zoom past two lanes of traffic at a crosswalk - I met her car after crossing the two thru traffic lanes in front of the stopped cars and almost making it all the way across the turn lane she was zooming past in - I've seen cars do that so often there I even looked for someone, but the lane's so short and she was going so fast that she wasn't even visible when I started across...

I'd been riding with my cameras religiously, but that day decided that since it was just going to be a flat, easy recovery ride on a trail, no camera was needed. A camera would have made it an open-and-shut case. FWIW, the local Department of Transportation has since shortened that turn lane so cars can't do that any more.

Also note that I'm not abusing this account - I'm just posting to THIS thread.

I might as well post this under my real name - once I post the case number and a link to it, my name's gonna be all over it.

And so will the driver's.

AndrewHenle

I didn't read that into his question. He seemed to be straightforward asking if it where possible.

It really wasn't. Look at that Google Street View image I linked.

StanSeven

This is an emotional subject but there are way too many insults tossed about. Let's keep posts to civil discussion.

canklecat

Yeah, the Ion video cameras are good for the money, usually under $100 and weather resistant as-is, no optional housing needed. I use a Speed Pro on every ride, mounted on the handlebar on the road bike and hybrid, and on my helmet on the errand bike. I should get another for rear view but would need to homebrew a mount.

There are better cameras but they cost a lot more. The Ions are cheap and tough. If I need more than 90 minutes run time I plug into an external USB battery. Bit of a kludge since I need a pouch to hold the battery, but I just Velcro a small lens pouch for my old Lowepro Off Trail camera waist bag onto the handlebar. A purpose-made stem or tube bar would work even better. I may check the Jannd stuff outlet store for that.

I've gotten into the routine, as soon as I get home from a ride, of plugging the camera in to the PC to recharge and wipe the media card if nothing noteworthy occurred. Ditto, my lights, phone, etc. Otherwise I tend to forget and that stuff wouldn't be ready next ride.

I've had a few near misses, horn honkers and yellers, but no over-the-top assaults like you've experienced. Usually I just shrug it off and ignore 'em. I'd like to believe I'd handle it well if someone came after me but the reality is that stuff like this tends to happen when we're least ready -- exhausted from a hill climb or sprint, had a bad day at work and just needed a decompression ride, etc. Knowing my temper and history, my priority is to restrain myself and ignore, avoid or deflect negative stuff. I know if I lose my temper someone is gonna have a bad day, so I avoid that at all costs.

So far I've had only one personal altercation, a shouting match with a driver who buzzed me and honked, then stopped ahead to continue fussing at me. Reviewing my video later, I handled it better than it felt like at the time. In memory I was screaming and cussing at the guy. In reality my voice was under control but firm, I never cussed or insulted him, and very firmly suggested that I call a police officer to come and straighten him out on what the law actually says about cyclists riding on public streets. We're fortunate to be in a cycling friendly area, so I was confident the law was on my side. The driver decided not to wait. Nobody got hurt. That's a good day.

If stressful stuff only occurred when we were ready the world would be happy as unicorn farts and rainbows. Doesn't work out that way in real life. We do the best we can given the cards we're dealt. You did as well as could be expected.

phoebeisis

AndrewHenle
Thanks for the info
Your GoPro died-other one died too.
Yeah cheap electronics are great-but they are cheap-so they die.
And yeah batteries and charging-dreary aspect of modern life.
So you don't know his name yet but once he is served -with a CRIMINAL COMPLAINT- your will know it-and post it.
Good
Now a complaint-is just a first step right-it isn't an arrest-just a notice that someone-you-filed a complaint against him.


I'm a pessimist about this situation.
The cops DA are just going to see a verbal "fight" with no injuries on the video-and his demanding you release him(not sure how that will be seen)
He-of course-will say you were blocking him and that is why he had to seize it and push it into the bushes.
Probably will claim you attacked him.
Yeah he is a sneaky unhinged old SOB-he will lie-claim you injured him-blocked him-threatened him.
No injuries on either side-so guessing DA will call it a draw.

We'll see.
putting his name on the web might bring out other episodes of bad behavior

the Natchez trace guy-few months back-was such a sorry SO# that his own son ratted him out
Rare for this sort of thing to an isolated incident-
old folks don't just wake up after 65 years and decide to grab strangers bicycles-MoFo them etc.
Hey-YOU might have been armed!
Anyone with an ounce of sense should have that in mind when they get in a dust up with a stranger-300,000,000 firearms