WNCGoater

On a busy highway with speeds of 55-60 MPH, taking the lane, even "negotiating" to do that, and assuming all the motorists behind you are going to know what's going on up ahead... well, I'm not sure taking the lane is a smart move in this particular situation. There are times to take the lane, I don't think this is one of them, nor is there any situation I can think of on highways I personally ride with speed limits of 55+ that I would take the lane.
At those speeds, there's likely no second chance if something happened.

It would be safer in my opinion, if you're going to be looking behind you, to spot a gap in the traffic then slow down so that you cross the spur road while in that gap. Or wait until there is a gap, or do whatever it takes to cross that road when there isn't a vehicle present that could merge onto it, or, or,or, or...
But that's just me. YMMV

billyymc

For what it's worth, that Spur Road (the actual name of the road) did not have traffic turning onto it. The woman who right hooked us was the only car we saw turn onto it, so it's not as if we were merging into a bunch of exiting traffic.

CliffordK

I'm not sure that the driver was as aggressive as being a poor judge. Perhaps she either assumed that your group was turning (at least initially), or more likely she just didn't have stopping and waiting for a bike in her driving repertoire, especially for a group of several bikes. Thus, the decision to try to cut in front. Or, she made a last minute decision to turn.

There are a couple of ways to navigate these types of intersections.

SpurRd.jpg

The blue line, you're more clearly going straight, but it exposes you to traffic in the turn lane for about 2x or 3x the time.

The red line, you can be confused with turning, but you minimize the exposure to traffic. It also allows you to pick and choose the time to cross a little better. So, assuming you aren't in continuous traffic, then one can look for a hole in traffic, then make one's move when the hole is available. Of course, that also works better at slower speeds, and with a single rider. At high speeds, and with a group of riders, perhaps some combination of the two.

billyymc

We were closer to the blue line. See the area where the dark pavement in the turn lane turns to light? That's the area where she whipped a turn right in front of us. I've also wondered if she only noticed the third rider who was off the back a bit and who she probably had reasonable time to turn in front of.

mr_bill

Magenta path is the line the person driving the car took?

Green path is the "third" way for a person to drive a bicycle through that intersection - between the center of the lane and the left tire track. You can't get right hooked by a person driving on that line.

Except in Massachusetts, where they would take the orange line.



-mr. bill

JoeyBike

I would take the red line, then look both ways as if I were crossing any street at a stop sign, then proceed across the exit lane when clear. Unless of course there was no traffic behind me as seen through my helmet mounted rear view mirror. No traffic whatsoever, I'm on the blue line.

I have done this a thousand time. Yes, you need a mirror. Yes, you need to LOOK at it. Yes, you might need to slow down or even stop to avoid getting hooked.
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billyymc

Yep - she pretty much took the magenta line.

Being at the left tire track on a 55/60 mph road with quite a bit of traffic didn't seem reasonable or safe.

If I rode this again I'd follow some of the advice here - don't be on wheel approaching intersections, which would allow better situational awareness. Would have allowed us to follow a path like the red path, or maybe make a stronger indication that we were going straight.

I'll also be more aware of looking forward while not in the lead if we are riding in formation. None of the three of us have a lot of experienced riding in a paceline scenario.

I was the only one with a mirror.

rumrunn6

looks a lot like a highway overpass I ride over, there's an entrance ramp I have to cross. the danger is ppl needing to take that ramp approx the same time I am crossing it

if they are moving too fast for me to beat to the entrance I brake. if I am well in advance I assert my presence. with 2 rear facing strobes most ppl are like: "what the heck is this idiot? I'd better stay away from him"

mirror & hand signals help a lot

Ninety5rpm

I think you're talking about a situation where the car immediately behind the cyclist screens the cyclist from other motorists approaching from behind that first car, and the driver of the first car waits until the last second to change lanes to pass, leaving the next motorist too little time and space to slow in time.

Very easy to imagine in theory.

Practically unheard of in practice, for a variety of reasons.

Show me someone who claims "taking the lane can be very dangerous" and I'll show you someone who does not habitually take the lane.

dh024

Well, you got me there - I do not habitually take the lane on high-speed, high-volume roads. (Too dangerous)

mr_bill

Speaking of imagining, have you ever ridden a bicycle around the Finger Lakes?

Where HAVE you ridden a bike?

Show me someone who can’t hear “nope!” and I’ll show you someone who....

-mr. bill

Ninety5rpm

Well, I do. It's edge riding that's too dangerous on such roads. Too vulnerable to being right hooked (like the OP), doored, left crossed or have someone suddenly pull out, not to mention inattentive drivers who don't notice you because you're "out of the way" and irrelevant, and then drift into your overlooked ass. No thanks. 25 years of those stressful experiences was enough for this lifetime. Now I'm getting too old for that, so I just take the lane. Much more peaceful.

mr_bill

No, it’s not like an overpass. It’s a lonely nutty intersection. Almost NOBODY takes the spur.

-mr. bill

billyymc

Yep, you're exactly right mr. bill. There was no reason to be taking the lane on Rt. 14. The shoulder there is wide and clean and smooth. Most of the traffic is making the drive from Geneva to Watkins Glen or vice-versa.

The scale may be deceiving on that photo...it's not comparable to an on/off ramp at all. Much much shorter / smaller in size

In any case, this thread has given me enough to think about next time I ride with a group (which is rare for me).

dh024

Wait - now what are you talking about? Initially, you objected to my suggestion that cyclists can't always safely ride in the centre of the lane, especially on high-speed, high-volume roads, such as busy freeways. But now you seem to be switching the conversation to a discussion about taking the lane on regular old city streets and typical traffic situations. (Otherwise, surely you can't be serious that taking the lane on a busy freeway is "peaceful"?)

Taking the lane on regular old streets? Yeah, of course. Every seasoned commuter cyclist does this.

Anyways, I am getting the impression that you are just being argumentative, so I'll let you debate with someone else, now. (Sorry, don't mean to be rude.)

rumrunn6

quite unexpected then. I get it. all the more reason to use a mirror & be on the lookout for it. from now on certainly

mr_bill

Again, where do you ride? The chances of getting right hooked on this road are vanishly small.

THERE ARE NO DOORS! [Picard voice.]

Pull outs and left crosses? There are intersections that are miles apart. Oh, there are driveways that you can see a quarter mile away.

Anyone who has had enough wine to be driving on the shoulder isn’t seeing you NO MATTER where you ride. (But you’ll blame the victim.)

Take the lane, please! [Dangerfield voice.]

Honestly, thrilled that this simple solution works for you.

The OP says NOPE!

-mr. bill

f4rrest

It sounds like the driver underestimated the speed of a paceline.

Drivers underestimate cyclists' speed often.

She probably expected to be well past the group by the time she hit the turn, but instead realized too late she might miss the turn, because your group was traveling faster than anticipated.

SHBR

If only it were that easy.

In civilized places, this is entirely possible, on this side of the planet, signals are viewed with contempt.

gregf83 

I think the mirror is a bit of a red herring here. The responsibility in this case lies with the lead rider. He should not have been ‘surprised’ when the car turned right. My guess is he wasn’t aware there was a potential for the car to turn right. Well before the turnoff he should have been easing off on the intensity and checking behind, with a mirror or by looking over his shoulder. Looking back and slowing a little will indicate to the other riders to back off a little as well.
If it’s an area you ride a lot and are familiar with it’s often easier for the last rider in the group to determine when it’s clear to continue.

I wouldn’t normally take the lane in this situation but I would signal left to the cars in advance of the turn.

WNCGoater

I believe you are intentionally being obtuse and argumentative for the sake of arguing. No one on here has suggested taking the lane isn't an option but clarify, THERE IS A TIME AND PLACE FOR TAKING THE LANE AND THIS ISN'T THE TIME OR PLACE.
I also question where you have ridden, or where you ride. If you'll notice, this is obviously an agricultural area, likely rural but definitely not a low speed, intersection laced, traffic light, stop & go, urban setting. The "normal" speed of the vehicles here as noted by the OP is 55-60 mph. Common sense dictates the "rules" when riding here are...get ready, here it comes... POSSIBLY DIFFERENT from riding in an urban setting. NO WAY does common sense dictate one should ride these roads by "taking the lane".
But then it requires common sense to ascertain that little truth so hey, ride your own ride and take the lane if you wish. Nature has a way of weeding out those deficient in the ability to recognize the realities of danger or the ability to measure the wisdom of applying "rules" equally across the board expecting the same results each time.

catgita

That is a tough situation, transition ramps usually are, simply because cars will be passing during the time you are in that zone. It seems there are many drivers who simply don’t know what to do, and multiple bikes makes it even more unfamiliar, and so act by habit. Cars can merge with single cars, but a string of bikes is an alien thing, and can be hard to cross without stopping suddenly in high speed traffic for a long time, which is intimidating even in a car.

In a group ride, it is good to have an experienced rider on the back when approaching a danger zone. As one of the most experienced riders in any group, or even when on the road behind random bikes, I act to protect the riders ahead. I ride a little further to the left, drop back a little to focus on approaching cars. Simply sitting up, turning your body and looking back is a strong indicator to cars behind that you are aware and bearing left. I try to get eye contact and guess drivers intent, call out warnings, negotiate an opening, signal and indicate intent, and block when necessary. They may honk at me sometimes, but that means they are definitely engaged and aware.

As an individual, I probably would have followed around to the right long enough to see if any cars were bearing to the right, then signal to cross. Even a small group probably would not do that, in reality, simply won’t happen. So someone needs to act as the rear flag man. A control and release situation.

Ninety5rpm

You set the context - "high speed, high volume" roads.

Presumably where cyclists are allowed. Not (most) freeways. Not freeway lanes.

But high volume and high speed does not preclude intersections and onstreet parking. It certainly does not preclude inattentive drivers drifting onto shoulders. That's what I was talking about - what (I thought) you were talking about.

SEE ALSO:

Lane Control in Dallas: Crossing the Houston St Viaduct:

Lane Control at Freeway Ramps in Irvine California:

Bicycle Driving on SoCal Arterials:

CliffordK

The proper reaction is to plan ahead. Either hit the gas and get around the slow vehicle, or to let off of the gas early, let the slow vehicle get ahead, and turn behind.

This is no different from approaching an exit on the freeway with a truck in the right lane. Either fully pass the truck, or slow down and pull in behind it.

In this case, had the driver planned long enough in advance, she could have slowed down to say 40 MPH early enough that the bicycles would have cleared the intersection before she got there, and not have been a danger to her vehicle, other vehicles on the road, nor the bicycles.

mr_bill

Your “high speed” and “high volume” examples aren’t.

They also have NOTHING to do with bicycling around the Finger Lakes.

Do you know how many leef peeping wine drinking people there are out there? Do you know anything about Seneca Lake? (Name a famous bicyclist....)

The rest of this reply has nothing to do with bicycling around the Finger Lakes either.

Not my video (but thousands cross here every day, I was but one). For some reason you brought up viaducts. How many cross the Houston St. Viaduct on a bicycle. Two. Who else?

-mr. bill