Please get off the road when you see a school bus
12-11-17, 05:49 PM
#126
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Back when I was in college, we had a bicycle safety advocate on campus who routinely wrote editorials for the college paper basically stating that the buses loading and unloading on a particular part of campus were going to kill a bicyclist one day due to their carelessness in how they pulled in and out of the loading area.
Well, he was right. He was run over and killed by a bus in the exact area he'd been complaining about.
I wish I'd kept a copy of that article reporting his death, because I can't find it online.
Well, he was right. He was run over and killed by a bus in the exact area he'd been complaining about.
I wish I'd kept a copy of that article reporting his death, because I can't find it online.
12-11-17, 06:16 PM
#127
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Oregon, Virginia and Maryland do not require oncoming traffic to stop if there's a physical barrier or median between the directions of travel.
12-11-17, 06:26 PM
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12-11-17, 07:58 PM
#129
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The exception is based on two realities.
First of all, the bus driver doesn't have the ability to monitor that children arrive home, or at least on their side of the street safely. So school bus routes are designed so children aren't discharged where they have to cross a divided road.
Secondly,it's not reasonable to expect drivers to be aware of what's happening on then other side of a divided roadway. Some of these aren't simply divided by a barrier, but may have a median strip, which may have plantings. So, there's a practical question of not creating "gotcha" laws, which folks can't be expected to follow. In any case, there's no need to stop, since drivers don't discharge the children where they have to cross.
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WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 12-11-17 at 08:15 PM.
12-11-17, 09:41 PM
#130
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I drive a school bus and I have come on this forum ask cyclist who rides bikes on one lane roads ( esp country roads) to please pull off the road and stand on the side so school buses can pass you safely, so we do not have to put children in harms way by going into the opposite lane of traffic on the other side of the road to pass you. Please remember Buses are wider and do take up all the one side of a lane. Many of you I assume have children, so please, I am asking you do this for the children!
thank you, have a good blessed holiday and be safe
thank you, have a good blessed holiday and be safe
When I am on a two-lane(one lane each side) road, I never let a bus cross a double-yellow line. Yes, Bus drivers' have schedules' to keep to. But that doesn't entitle them to be stupid!!!!!!If you want dead children on your conscious!!!!
Then go right ahead and have a head-on collision with an oncoming motorist!!!!!I have reported many school bus drivers!!!!!!
Who wanted a cyclist, out of their way!!!!!
Last edited by Chris0516; 12-11-17 at 09:52 PM.
12-11-17, 10:49 PM
#131
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Please. The OP is a guest in this forum. He came here politely to make a request.
Many, including myself, feel the request was out of line for various reasons, including simple practicality. That's all well and good, and we should feel free to communicate that, as most of us did.
But the OP did come in good faith, and deserves to be treated as such. We don't have to grant his request, but we do owe him the courtesy of recognizing his intent and responding in kind.
We have to share the road with drivers who have no awareness of our unique needs and what we have to contend with. If we want drivers to develop an appreciation for our perspective, we're better served if we offer them the explanations without the rancor.
Many, including myself, feel the request was out of line for various reasons, including simple practicality. That's all well and good, and we should feel free to communicate that, as most of us did.
But the OP did come in good faith, and deserves to be treated as such. We don't have to grant his request, but we do owe him the courtesy of recognizing his intent and responding in kind.
We have to share the road with drivers who have no awareness of our unique needs and what we have to contend with. If we want drivers to develop an appreciation for our perspective, we're better served if we offer them the explanations without the rancor.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
12-12-17, 06:59 AM
#132
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I drive a school bus and I have come on this forum ask cyclist who rides bikes on one lane roads ( esp country roads) to please pull off the road and stand on the side so school buses can pass you safely, so we do not have to put children in harms way by going into the opposite lane of traffic on the other side of the road to pass you. Please remember Buses are wider and do take up all the one side of a lane. Many of you I assume have children, so please, I am asking you do this for the children!
thank you, have a good blessed holiday and be safe
thank you, have a good blessed holiday and be safe
12-12-17, 07:01 AM
#133
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I live (and ride, and drive) on two lane, narrow country roads. Never once have I had a School Bus consider their speed and the fact that they impede the normal flow of traffic with constant starting and stopping while I and others drive our kids to school and ourselves to work. On my way to work, behind one, it will stop & load kids. Wait until they are seated, then finally move forward for 50 yards, or even driveway to driveway and stop again. This is repeated over 1/4 mile stretch. Only to be repeated shortly down the road.
Never seen one give a concern as to MY need to drive my vehicle or consideration for anyone else's schedule.
By law, I cannot pass them except in a passing zone, and then only if it is safe. According to NC law, a motor vehicle can pass a cyclist, even on a double yellow line, again, if it is safe. Cyclists, in spite of the general public's mindset, do not cause delays of any consequence. School buses on the other hand...
(I suspect the OP is in the camp of many motorist who default to "outrage that cyclist is even out here!" mentality.)
I agree with others, if passing a cyclists endangers the passengers on a bus, or any other vehicle for that matter, it is the driver of the vehicle that is endangering the passengers. A bicycle is just another vehicle on the road. If the OP endangers their cargo, they should look for another line of work.
And while I'm at it, I believe school buses have outlived their original intended use. Nowadays, even most families who would be considered poor have a car. I watch daily as kids sit in the car with their parents, waiting on the bus to pick them up. Whereupon they exit THEIR PARENT'S CAR and board the bus. People find a way to get to town and the store and buy food, beer, and other "necessities" or otherwise conduct their daily business. I believe if no buses existed, they'd find a way to get their kids to school. It is apparent that in a lot of cases, if not most, the school bus is a "convenience" but no longer a necessity. And I have no context of the cost to taxpayers but I'm sure nationwide its in the multiple billions $.
Never seen one give a concern as to MY need to drive my vehicle or consideration for anyone else's schedule.
By law, I cannot pass them except in a passing zone, and then only if it is safe. According to NC law, a motor vehicle can pass a cyclist, even on a double yellow line, again, if it is safe. Cyclists, in spite of the general public's mindset, do not cause delays of any consequence. School buses on the other hand...
(I suspect the OP is in the camp of many motorist who default to "outrage that cyclist is even out here!" mentality.)
I agree with others, if passing a cyclists endangers the passengers on a bus, or any other vehicle for that matter, it is the driver of the vehicle that is endangering the passengers. A bicycle is just another vehicle on the road. If the OP endangers their cargo, they should look for another line of work.
And while I'm at it, I believe school buses have outlived their original intended use. Nowadays, even most families who would be considered poor have a car. I watch daily as kids sit in the car with their parents, waiting on the bus to pick them up. Whereupon they exit THEIR PARENT'S CAR and board the bus. People find a way to get to town and the store and buy food, beer, and other "necessities" or otherwise conduct their daily business. I believe if no buses existed, they'd find a way to get their kids to school. It is apparent that in a lot of cases, if not most, the school bus is a "convenience" but no longer a necessity. And I have no context of the cost to taxpayers but I'm sure nationwide its in the multiple billions $.
12-12-17, 10:02 AM
#134
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Left home a bit earlier this morning due to snow, and hit another bus I forgot about. Stops on a busy two lane road with red lights on for over two minutes, when a parent is actually on the bus helping their child get on the bus and get settled in.
It could very easily pull off onto the side street she is parked on waiting for it, if such a long stop is necessitated, or at least change lights to yellow while the parent and child are onboard, but it is easier for it to sit on the main street and hold up traffic.
I just don't really need a lecture on how safely passing cyclists holds up the bus driver.
It could very easily pull off onto the side street she is parked on waiting for it, if such a long stop is necessitated, or at least change lights to yellow while the parent and child are onboard, but it is easier for it to sit on the main street and hold up traffic.
I just don't really need a lecture on how safely passing cyclists holds up the bus driver.
12-12-17, 12:39 PM
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somehow there are thousands of school busses on the road every day able to navigate around cyclists and coexist :-)
I never thought a school bus that stops every 100 feet (in my neck of the woods) to pick up a child is in any kind of hurry :-)
I never thought a school bus that stops every 100 feet (in my neck of the woods) to pick up a child is in any kind of hurry :-)
12-12-17, 01:00 PM
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Advocacy and Safety seems innocuous enough, and I don't expect the mods to put up one of these signs.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
12-12-17, 01:04 PM
#138
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After thinking about the school bus driver's perspective, I feel hopeful. If s/he doesn't want cyclists in front of the bus and is advising cyclists to move off to the side, then we cyclists have another ally in the persuit of separated bike lanes.
12-12-17, 01:32 PM
#139
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In rural areas school buses and giant motorhome/campers are the most feared vehicles I came in contact with.
Most other giant vehicles are operated by professional, highly trained drivers who put many, many hours behind the wheel of big vehicles. School buses and huge campers...God only what kind of amateur is behind the wheel of those things.
12-12-17, 01:47 PM
#140
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In the city I have no trouble staying out of the way of school and public transit buses. A combination of speed and red-light running keeps me WAY ahead of them!
In rural areas school buses and giant motorhome/campers are the most feared vehicles I came in contact with.
Most other giant vehicles are operated by professional, highly trained drivers who put many, many hours behind the wheel of big vehicles. School buses and huge campers...God only what kind of amateur is behind the wheel of those things.
In rural areas school buses and giant motorhome/campers are the most feared vehicles I came in contact with.
Most other giant vehicles are operated by professional, highly trained drivers who put many, many hours behind the wheel of big vehicles. School buses and huge campers...God only what kind of amateur is behind the wheel of those things.
12-12-17, 02:02 PM
#141
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I have to say that there are a lot of variables.
What is traffic really like on the road the OP is talking about? How is the cyclist riding? One cyclist? Many cyclists? There are raging discussions on this board whether a cyclist should ride as far right as possible vs as far left as possible (which impacts slow, safe passes as suggested by FBinNY).
Around here, most of the busy roads have shoulders, and are wide enough lanes for 2 vehicles to pass each other while passing a bicycle (although not always comfortable for all). Some of the more rural roads are narrow enough that one could not safely pass with 2 vehicles + bicycle, but fortunately even at rush hour traffic, the cars on the road are infrequent enough that there are holes in traffic to safely pass.
As a cyclist (6000+ miles this year), I generally ride for the purpose of getting somewhere, the same as people who are driving.
Safely passing a bicycle is no different than safely passing any other vehicle, car, tractor, horse & buggy, etc. Slow down, match the speed of the lead vehicle, look for a safe place to pass, and pass. Don't pass around blind corners or with oncoming traffic close enough that you won't be able to complete the pass in time. Bike lanes and road shoulders can help mitigate space issues on the road.
It doesn't mean you have to drive up to the cyclist at 50 MPH, slam on the brakes, and follow at 10 MPH for hours. Read the road ahead, and adjust speed accordingly to achieve a safe pass (slow down early if you expect to meet a bicycle near a blind corner).
As a cyclist, it is rare that a car will ever have to slow down and follow me for more than 5 seconds. (more than that and it is a little unnerving). And I will look for safe ways for vehicles to maneuver around me, including swinging into driveways to allow a pass or even on occasion putting a foot down. Can a bus driver that does stop and go driving to load and unload the bus 2 to 4 times a day deal with an extra 5 seconds of slowing down?
I usually don't get stuck behind school buses, but for city buses, in some cases, it may help to just let the bike get ahead if they're moving along at a reasonable clip.
Does your school district offer meetings where drivers can meet and discuss dealing with road hazards? It might help some to discuss it with other drivers in a constructive manner, rather than considering the world as you against the world.
12-12-17, 02:07 PM
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As a cyclist, it is rare that a car will ever have to slow down and follow me for more than 5 seconds. (more than that and it is a little unnerving). And I will look for safe ways for vehicles to maneuver around me, including swinging into driveways to allow a pass or even on occasion putting a foot down.
12-12-17, 02:44 PM
#143
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12-12-17, 02:45 PM
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You are right, it's not common and it is unnerving. It also tends to be people wanting to make an upcoming right turn and they have the choice to whip around you dangerously or be patient until you get past where they want to turn. Moving to the right and slowing to a stop near that right turn (including their own driveway) is going to tick the driver off something fierce and he or she will remember it next time they meet you on the road, and there's a halfway decent chance they will whip around you because they can't trust you will actually get out of their way.
And there are times when I've anticipated wrong. Move to allow someone to pass, only to be in the wrong spot. Just move again, and get on with life.
I have had a couple of right hook close calls, generally when I'm moving faster than traffic in a bike path, but generally drivers around here are overly cautious about right hooks. A few pass too close for comfort ahead of me, but if I'm not slamming the brakes and flying over the front wheel, then I don't worry about it.
12-12-17, 10:24 PM
#147
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Please. The OP is a guest in this forum. He came here politely to make a request.
Many, including myself, feel the request was out of line for various reasons, including simple practicality. That's all well and good, and we should feel free to communicate that, as most of us did.
But the OP did come in good faith, and deserves to be treated as such. We don't have to grant his request, but we do owe him the courtesy of recognizing his intent and responding in kind.
We have to share the road with drivers who have no awareness of our unique needs and what we have to contend with. If we want drivers to develop an appreciation for our perspective, we're better served if we offer them the explanations without the rancor.
Many, including myself, feel the request was out of line for various reasons, including simple practicality. That's all well and good, and we should feel free to communicate that, as most of us did.
But the OP did come in good faith, and deserves to be treated as such. We don't have to grant his request, but we do owe him the courtesy of recognizing his intent and responding in kind.
We have to share the road with drivers who have no awareness of our unique needs and what we have to contend with. If we want drivers to develop an appreciation for our perspective, we're better served if we offer them the explanations without the rancor.
Before a bus driver can go on the road. They have to have an impeccable driving record. Once they are in training. They are reminded about the rules and regulations of the state, county, and any municipal regulations.
I have reported many bus drivers', who were more concerned about their schedule. Than the kids.
Any good faith intention on the part of this particular school bus driver. Is negated by their selfishness. Also inviting a cycling fatality because this particular school bus driver has gone to the extent of saying they want cyclists' to get out of their way. Motorists' do that every day. So, There is nothing new, nothing fresh, no new FYI.
Everyone has to share the road. But that doesn't justify one mode of transportation. Summarily telling another mode of transportation to get off the road.
12-12-17, 10:25 PM
#148
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I'm a little more generous--I maintain it hit bottom at post #35, but that's the post that confirmed my gut feeling about post #1.
Last edited by Roadwanderer; 12-13-17 at 07:39 AM.
12-13-17, 12:11 AM
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Those claims always remind me of the movie villains, who hold a gun to the hero's wife/girlfriend/daughter's head and tell him it'll be all his fault if they have to shoot her.
12-13-17, 06:40 AM
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The OPs mindset is all too common. Our duty is to "get out of people's way" immediately.