Seattle wants to try something new...
#26
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Yes on the wide left - after completing the turn, I continue down the shoulder/bike lane and the cars are free to pass in the auto lane without having to switch lanes.
Even if they don't see me, it's not a big deal unless they swerve WAY to the right at the very beginning of the turn when I am close. I hover over the brake lever for just such occasions. Other than that, I hammer down and just try to clear the intersection as quickly as possible. I love my single speed for that; no worries of being between gears!
Even if they don't see me, it's not a big deal unless they swerve WAY to the right at the very beginning of the turn when I am close. I hover over the brake lever for just such occasions. Other than that, I hammer down and just try to clear the intersection as quickly as possible. I love my single speed for that; no worries of being between gears!
Oh, I'm sure there'll be talk-backs over this but nowadays, I just line up like all the other cars. And when we finish our turns, I go to the right lane and the car in front of me can do the same without endangering or confusing anybody.
#27
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Your first video demonstrates the issue I have exactly. If you had just turned in the left turn lane, you'd be down the road by 30 seconds to a minute instead of waiting for the light to cycle. If I had to do this for multiple lights, it would drive me nuts.
Additionally, I don't understand this idea of putting bikes at the front of traffic. It is safer for the bicyclist and the driver to not be the one passed or the one doing the passing. I'd much rather be at the end of a line of cars going through a light than at the beginning.
Additionally, I don't understand this idea of putting bikes at the front of traffic. It is safer for the bicyclist and the driver to not be the one passed or the one doing the passing. I'd much rather be at the end of a line of cars going through a light than at the beginning.
red line is path of old rail road
green lines show how we cross the intersection now
orange circle is the green box
Last edited by rumrunn6; 07-26-19 at 10:59 AM.
#28
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In any event, once upon a time "serious cyclists" would exit at Mill Street and make a left turn onto Mass Ave. However, they made that right turn only.
So "serious cyclists" would abandon the bikeway and take Russel Terrace (sort of) to Mystic, right on Mystic, left on Mass Ave.
See the first picture below.
But before that. NOTE THE RED ARROW. It's no faster to make a left on Mass Ave from Mystic than it is to do the two stage turn, and often it's slower since you can get tangled up in traffic trying to make the RIGHT onto Mystic.
So, pics below:
Define “few.” Understand that before the Minuteman officially opened, I was there with our newborn. (Think stroller slalom, grrr.)
They were on the back of the bike asap though, followed by back of the trailer bike.
Still remember when I got the push from behind. They pushed their own weight, woah!
And, pretty much just the two of us were it back then.
It’s not just you, LOTS of people with LOTS of kids going to and fro. I can't help but smile.
Some of the rigs are amazing. One couple is on a tandem towing a recumbent tandem trailer bike - the never ending bicycle, never managed to get a good shot.
But here's a Bike-Trailer Bike-Trailer:
The long tails look fun though:
It's like we are becoming Amsterdam or something:
-mr. bill
They were on the back of the bike asap though, followed by back of the trailer bike.
Still remember when I got the push from behind. They pushed their own weight, woah!
And, pretty much just the two of us were it back then.
It’s not just you, LOTS of people with LOTS of kids going to and fro. I can't help but smile.
Some of the rigs are amazing. One couple is on a tandem towing a recumbent tandem trailer bike - the never ending bicycle, never managed to get a good shot.
But here's a Bike-Trailer Bike-Trailer:
The long tails look fun though:
It's like we are becoming Amsterdam or something:
-mr. bill
Additionally, I don't understand this idea of putting bikes at the front of traffic. It is safer for the bicyclist and the driver to not be the one passed or the one doing the passing. I'd much rather be at the end of a line of cars going through a light than at the beginning.
BTW, they put sharrows on ALL THREE LANES on Mystic.
None of which has much to do with Dutch style intersections, since you keeping whinging about Danish style intersections.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 07-26-19 at 12:31 PM.
#29
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a little more info. this intersection is unique. they have to move ppl & riders from a paved MUP across this big road, then down about 1/10 mile & back onto the continuing paved MUP, without using a MUP bridge over everything. as for being in front of traffic, I like it. i
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#30
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What are you going on about?
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#31
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#32
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It may work but I'm still not a fan. Your video shows one of the problems I have with the "cross-wait-cross" method of turn, however. Although the bikeway doesn't continue on the side street (Mystic?), what happens to someone who might want to continue onto that street? If they are behind another cyclist, there it the potential that the lead cyclist will stop and turn in front of the through rider.
Second, you are absolutely correct. We’ve been stacking people on bikes colliding with each other like cordwood.
(Again, critique OK. Blow it out your....)
-mr. bill
#33
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the whole megillah, opening to opening. I've experimented with getting onto Mystic (but inserting yourself into that traffic to get into the left lane is not wise) & also what this couple does at the pedestrian corner on the other side. neither works as well as the green box. Jim those pics of the box crowded w/ cyclists was hysterical. it would have been interesting to watch them file off into the bike lane
I've also said "scr*w it" & just bailed left on the wrong side of the road in front of the cop. it only worked cuz very few ppl were on the road for the start of this snow storm. but this worked quite well w no traffic. however this intersection is not known for no traffic
coming back yesterday the bike lane was crowded & a cpl guys were going straight so they broke off
I've also said "scr*w it" & just bailed left on the wrong side of the road in front of the cop. it only worked cuz very few ppl were on the road for the start of this snow storm. but this worked quite well w no traffic. however this intersection is not known for no traffic
coming back yesterday the bike lane was crowded & a cpl guys were going straight so they broke off
#34
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It may work but I'm still not a fan. Your video shows one of the problems I have with the "cross-wait-cross" method of turn, however. Although the bikeway doesn't continue on the side street (Mystic?), what happens to someone who might want to continue onto that street? If they are behind another cyclist, there it the potential that the lead cyclist will stop and turn in front of the through rider. The through rider has to ride around the stopped rider either in front or behind. The picture that genec posted illustrates this as well. People being people, someone is going to stop short in the bike lane to do a left turn and someone is going to plow into them. If 10 people reach that intersection at the same time...a distinct possibility...it's gridlock.
#35
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I’m not from there and I’ve never bicycled there. The pictures posted have not had any reference to street name changes. Rather than get all huffy about it, you could just politely detail the name change.
Well I guess you just want to get all huffy about it. Nothing illustrates your point like hurling insults.
Second, you are absolutely correct. We’ve been stacking people on bikes colliding with each other like cordwood.
(Again, critique OK. Blow it out your....)
-mr. bill
(Again, critique OK. Blow it out your....)
-mr. bill
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#36
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the whole megillah, opening to opening. I've experimented with getting onto Mystic (but inserting yourself into that traffic to get into the left lane is not wise) & also what this couple does at the pedestrian corner on the other side. neither works as well as the green box. Jim those pics of the box crowded w/ cyclists was hysterical. it would have been interesting to watch them file off into the bike lane
Now take that picture of all the people lined up for a left turn and put that line of people on genec’s route. If I recall correctly...I’ve been to Seattle and been in the region of Second and Pike...there is a fair about of both bicycle and pedestrian traffic on those streets. If a line of cyclists were riding on Pike, for example, and someone in the middle decided to turn left on 2nd, the natural inclination is to come to a stop and turn so that they can set up for the left turn. Someone further back in the line might not know (or see) what happened and could run into the stopped cyclist. It’s not a good design for either safety or utility. In another discussion, I quoted someone who said you should trade one problem for another problem.
Looking at genec’s picture again, I wouldn’t use that bikeway anyway...at least not traveling the way the cyclist in the picture is traveling. Like our stupid 15th Street protected lane, it is on the wrong side of a one-way street. Riding so that you could use these stupid “boxes” would mean riding contra-flow to traffic and I just won’t do that.
It also presents another problem for using the boxes in the picture, a left turning cyclist would have to turn right (across the path of a cyclist traveling with traffic) to get into the box to wait for the light. Most people are just going to stop and turn their bikes to the left and wait for the light. They are likely to be just waiting in the crosswalk which, again, presents the possibility for collision.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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