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Bad behavior and witty insight...

Old 10-05-23, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
talking on a phone and distracted driving are the same thing
No they are not the same. Excepting hands free talk to text, I don't know anyone who can text without looking at their phone. While having a phone or an in person conversation is a distraction, it can be done without taking your eyes off the road.

What people here complain about when they complain about texting drivers is drivers who are so immersed in whatever it is they are doing with their devices that they do things like drift out of lane and go slow in the passing lane.

That's really a simple truth, and no amount of obstinance on your part can make it false.

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Old 10-05-23, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
There are some posters here who will make a distinction between talking on a hand-held device and texting on said device when the law does not care which it is, as it is still distracted driving, and illegal in most jurisdiction.
In Florida it is legal to talk on the phone while driving, but illegal to text. There are still a pretty fair number of states in the US where this is the case.
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Old 10-06-23, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
It seems in discussions about bicyclists rolling through stops and red lights that the remarks most often include "without looking." I contend that there's no way for the majority of observers to determine that. If it was as common as it is purported to be, it'd be reflected in the fatality statistics. It's not. It's probably best to speak from of position of certainty rather than conjecture. Anything wrong with that?
There is nothing wrong with that and you are spot on. So cars can roll through red lights as well? And while the odds of being involved in a motor vehicle collision are slim, I am certain that running a red light does not decrease those odds. I am also certain that there are other serious endpoints to being hit by a car besides being killed. Lastly, I am certain that the cyclist who ran the red light put himself, and others, at unnecessary risk.
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Old 10-06-23, 06:50 AM
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I read an article once that claimed children exhibit more risk avoidance than adults. The proposed basis for this was that while risky behaviors increase the probability of something bad happening, the overall probability that something bad happens remains low. The cumulative lack of negative consequences while engaging in risky behavior gives a false sense of security, thus increasing the engagement of risky behavior over time.

And no... texting on a cell phone while driving is not the same as talking on the cell phone while driving. And shaving while driving is not the same as putting on make up while driving. Huh... I forgot what point I was trying to make...
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Old 10-06-23, 10:21 AM
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Rolling through a red light is situational. At 6 am where there is little traffic on the road, rolling up to a red light when there are no other cars around it is certainly safer than waiting for the green light and traffic stopped. I certainly would not endorse the idea of running red lights with regular traffic, but given the choice between crossing a road against a red light with no cars in sight and crossing a green light with traffic, I'll take the former.
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Old 10-06-23, 10:22 AM
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In Ontario, the laws makes no distinction between texting or talking with phone in hand.
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Old 10-06-23, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
In Ontario, the laws makes no distinction between texting or talking with phone in hand.
Can you?
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Old 10-06-23, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
In Ontario, the laws makes no distinction between texting or talking with phone in hand.
That is true....There is a law against using hand held mobile devices while driving and it makes no difference if the person is texting or talking or browsing internet while driving. It's all falls under " distracted driving ".
In fact it includes using any type of screen which is not directly related to driving. Example would be using a lap top computer to browse internet, do online shopping, play video games, watch you tube videos while driving.
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Old 10-06-23, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
Rolling through a red light is situational. At 6 am where there is little traffic on the road, rolling up to a red light when there are no other cars around it is certainly safer than waiting for the green light and traffic stopped.
Agree 100% on this one...That's what I've been doing for years. I learned after many years of commuting that sometimes it's safer to twist or break the law than to follow every letter of the law.
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Old 10-06-23, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
It seems in discussions about bicyclists rolling through stops and red lights that the remarks most often include "without looking." I contend that there's no way for the majority of observers to determine that. If it was as common as it is purported to be, it'd be reflected in the fatality statistics. It's not. It's probably best to speak from of position of certainty rather than conjecture. Anything wrong with that?
I am sure that majority of experienced cyclists who roll through reds or stops have enough situational awareness to know if it's safe to do so....But I have seen some cyclists who pull out of side streets to make a turn and not even slow down or look. It seems that they rely on pure luck instead of common sense.
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Old 10-09-23, 08:54 PM
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Congratulations on taking charge of your health!

Originally Posted by a1a
I enjoy riding early in the morning to avoid rush hour traffic. Double edged sword but at least there are less cars to keep an eye on.

I was on the road. I had the green light. I am sure the truck intended to let me pass but you can't know that when they blow past the first white line (where they should stop) and come to a quick stop right at the curb. I slowed... they let me pass... not the worst thing that has happened to me.

BUT... heading back, when rush hour was picking up. I came to a stop at the light, where all corners had cars looking to go straight, turn, etc... when a MTB flew right through the red light without even looking.

My first triathlon this past year had an incident a few years prior where someone my age (50's) died during the swim. I noticed a "be respectful of cyclist" signs on my route recently where a cyclist was struck and killed a couple of years ago... also about my age.

Risk is relative. Be safe.

Not to toot my horn but I've lost about 60 pounds over the past year. This was after 2 heart caths (no intervention but getting close), hypertension out of control and no longer being pre-diabetic... flat out diabetic. Currently I am down to one medication for blood pressure. I want to lose more weight, for health reasons, but also it will be a lot cheaper than upgrading my bike

Anywho... I do a lot of thinking during my rides. I fully embrace the "you're just figuring this out now" and "d'uh" replies

Risk can be mitigated. Do you what you love.

I also almost hit a deer and a possum. Glad I have a super bright headlight... Quite the fun-filled morning!
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Old 10-10-23, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Korina
Congratulations on taking charge of your health!
Thanks. Making mistakes along the way... but when given the choice of "to move or not to move" I have never regretted moving.

banana slug... ucsc?
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Old 10-10-23, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by a1a
Thanks. Making mistakes along the way... but when given the choice of "to move or not to move" I have never regretted moving.

banana slug... ucsc?
brightly colored and slow.
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Old 10-10-23, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by a1a
...I am certain that the cyclist who ran the red light put himself, and others, at unnecessary risk.
Really!?

I estimated that I "ran" 16,000 (that's sixteen THOUSAND) red lights and stop signs yearly from age 15-55. I'm still here and caused ZERO other deaths or injuries (except for likely damaging a few tender sensibilities).
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Old 10-10-23, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Really!?

I estimated that I "ran" 16,000 (that's sixteen THOUSAND) red lights and stop signs yearly from age 15-55. I'm still here and caused ZERO other deaths or injuries (except for likely damaging a few tender sensibilities).
The number aside, I've also ignored countless red lights and stop signs.

I don't like to say "run" in this context because it implies more than what I mean.

In simplest terms I approach ALL interactions the same way as if they were unregulated. I don't trust a green to protect me, nor as red to obligate me. I simply let traffic and sightline considerations guide me.

So, I may proceed without slowing, may slow and time it out, or stop and wait.

Lots of people here will say I'm wrong, and like the OP start a thread calling me out, but they can't see what I see or know what I think.
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Old 10-10-23, 06:39 PM
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Some people feel like a sitting duck when stopped at a red light, there is a school of thought that says it is generally safer to keep on moving.
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Old 10-10-23, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Some people feel like a sitting duck when stopped at a red light, there is a school of thought that says it is generally safer to keep on moving.
Everything is about the situation. Sometimes it's safer to wait, sometimes it's not.

For example there's a place where I need to wait in the left lane to make a left. Unfortunately, drivers coming from my right tend to start their left turns early and nip the corner. Plenty of close calls there. OTOH, usually, not waiting isn't an option either. So, if there's no car to use as a stalking horse, I'll stop and wait way back.

The point is that whether I stop, and where I stop, both depend on the exact situation that day.
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Old 10-10-23, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Some people feel like a sitting duck when stopped at a red light, there is a school of thought that says it is generally safer to keep on moving.
Especially when one of those gigantic pickups/SUVs are approaching from behind and you're not entirely sure they saw you or they'll slow down in time.
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Old 10-10-23, 08:29 PM
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I have stopped at lights all my life and have never been hit by a car. After stopping I have ran the lights when they don't change to green in a reasonable amount of time. I have been hit slowing for a stop by another bicyclist who didn't let me know he was on my tail.

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Old 10-11-23, 05:24 AM
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About stopping at lights. I process everything from a standpoint of mitigating risks. There are two risks associated with stopping in the lane at a traffic light. Vehicles approaching from behind may not see you. This seems to be a pretty rare form of accident, but bicycle accident data is really lacking in detail. Then, once things get going, cars may soon be overtaking the cyclist. The rear end or side swipe crash seems to be more common, and it's also one that's hard to guard against. Running a traffic light can often eliminate both of those risks, but introduces a new risk. Cross traffic. It's very easy for me to look at cross traffic and make a determination of whether or not I can safely proceed.

When I can safely run a traffic light, I most often do. With that said, everything is situational. Details matter, so it's rare that I speak in absolutes.
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Old 10-11-23, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
Rolling through a red light is situational. At 6 am where there is little traffic on the road, rolling up to a red light when there are no other cars around it is certainly safer than waiting for the green light and traffic stopped. I certainly would not endorse the idea of running red lights with regular traffic, but given the choice between crossing a road against a red light with no cars in sight and crossing a green light with traffic, I'll take the former.
I hate to quote my own post, but here it illustrates what I mean by safer to cross against a red when no cars around or a green when there is traffic. Yesterday morning (6:30 a.m., still dark) while crossing a major road--three lanes each way, plus left turning lane. I waited for green light. Got the green. Took cursory look to the left. Saw that two vehicles had stopped on my left. Proceeded to cross. Not half a moment after crossing the median a speeding vehicle ran the red light through the intersection right behind me. It all could have ended right there and then for.

This is from my rear-facing camera.


Road was wet. It was dark. Light reflections everywhere obscuring the scene...whatever the reason, you can't put your faith and safety in the hands of stupid, distracted, intoxicated, and reckless drivers!

Ride safe out there.
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Old 10-11-23, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
I hate to quote my own post, but here it illustrates what I mean by safer to cross against a red when no cars around or a green when there is traffic. Yesterday morning (6:30 a.m., still dark) while crossing a major road--three lanes each way, plus left turning lane. I waited for green light. Got the green. Took cursory look to the left. Saw that two vehicles had stopped on my left. Proceeded to cross. Not half a moment after crossing the median a speeding vehicle ran the red light through the intersection right behind me. It all could have ended right there and then for.

This is from my rear-facing camera.


Road was wet. It was dark. Light reflections everywhere obscuring the scene...whatever the reason, you can't put your faith and safety in the hands of stupid, distracted, intoxicated, and reckless drivers!

Ride safe out there.

I don't ride at night. I had never considered the light reflections off of wet surfaces. That's a very real consideration.
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Old 10-12-23, 12:43 PM
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I think some drivers are very courteous and slow to give enough passing room, but then there are others who seem like they are playing a game where they want to see how close they can get to you without hitting you with their side mirror. In 2022 NJ passed a law to protect walkers, joggers and cyclists. But I would be that the majority of drivers have no idea there is such a law or if they are aware of it they have no idea what four feet looks like. Here is what it is supposed to do.
  • Also known as “Oscar’s Law,” the bill was introduced to protect people like Oscar, who could not drive a car and was riding his electric bicycle everywhere when a tractor-trailer fatally struck him.
  • 2021 was the deadliest year for NJ bicyclists and pedestrians in 30 years, highlighting the need to do more to protect everyone on the road.
  • According to the law, Drivers must follow all current no-passing, no-speeding rules AND move over a lane IF there’s one to move into. So no, you do not have to pass when center lines are both solid, but
  • If 4 feet is not possible on a section of road, drivers must slow to 25mph and be prepared to stop until they can pass safely without endangering those sharing the road.
  • On a single-lane road, drivers must allow at least a 4-foot safety zone when they pass.
  • If you see a pedestrian or a bicyclist on the shoulder or riding in a painted bike lane, leave 4 feet between you and the person sharing the road, not the painted line.
  • Cyclists are legally allowed to take the whole lane and can legally ride two abreast as far to the rights as “practicable.”
  • When sidewalks are unavailable, pedestrians can walk on the road, facing traffic.
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Old 10-12-23, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
I hate to quote my own post, but here it illustrates what I mean by safer to cross against a red when no cars around or a green when there is traffic. Yesterday morning (6:30 a.m., still dark) while crossing a major road--three lanes each way, plus left turning lane. I waited for green light. Got the green. Took cursory look to the left. Saw that two vehicles had stopped on my left. Proceeded to cross. Not half a moment after crossing the median a speeding vehicle ran the red light through the intersection right behind me. It all could have ended right there and then for.

This is from my rear-facing camera.


Road was wet. It was dark. Light reflections everywhere obscuring the scene...whatever the reason, you can't put your faith and safety in the hands of stupid, distracted, intoxicated, and reckless drivers!

Ride safe out there.
In in intersection like that I'm always looking at the cars and the light is an afterthought, to the point where I have accidentally ran red lights
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Old 10-13-23, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
In in intersection like that I'm always looking at the cars and the light is an afterthought, to the point where I have accidentally ran red lights
Unless the traffic light is about to fall on you and crush you, it is wise to keep your focus on the things that are more likely to kill or maim you. Like motor vehicles, potholes, road debris, missing manhole covers, muggers, etc. The pretty lights won't save you. YOU must save you. Do not get distracted or mesmerized by inanimate objects and traffic control furniture. Smart!
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