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Woman hit by three cars in Palo Alto

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Woman hit by three cars in Palo Alto

Old 02-21-24, 07:36 PM
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Woman hit by three cars in Palo Alto

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ay/ar-BB1iBsiK

The woman was operating per the rules for cyclists and she died. While it may seem sensible to follow the rules in going through city traffic it is also decidedly dangerous. With any traffic at all I will go straight across and intersection and then wait for the light to change and complete the "left turn". I will never get in a left turn lane in an effort to save a few minutes of my time. All it takes is one driver distracted by their cell phone to end the life of someone in the roadway and it does not matter at all if the motorist was at fault.
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Old 02-21-24, 08:22 PM
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horrible way to go.

Is that in Cali?
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Old 02-21-24, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Calsun
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ay/ar-BB1iBsiK

The woman was operating per the rules for cyclists and she died. While it may seem sensible to follow the rules in going through city traffic it is also decidedly dangerous. With any traffic at all I will go straight across and intersection and then wait for the light to change and complete the "left turn". I will never get in a left turn lane in an effort to save a few minutes of my time. All it takes is one driver distracted by their cell phone to end the life of someone in the roadway and it does not matter at all if the motorist was at fault.
Is there a full moon or something? WTF? As I told another poster in this forum, renamed "Hand-wringing & Histrionics", you do you. I'm not making any double light cycle left turns when a straightforward left is available. And I've never been killed doing it 'my way'. That unfortunate woman should not be used as an example of anything! When I stand alone at a signal of any kind I STILL obey the Cardinal Rule of Defensive Cycling: FRAP. Even a turn lane has edge markers and 99% of cars going through leave enough room on either side of the central 6' to make even an idiot move like the kid pulled, not be a fatal accident.
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Old 02-21-24, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Is there a full moon or something? WTF? As I told another poster in this forum, renamed "Hand-wringing & Histrionics", you do you. I'm not making any double light cycle left turns when a straightforward left is available. And I've never been killed doing it 'my way'. That unfortunate woman should not be used as an example of anything! When I stand alone at a signal of any kind I STILL obey the Cardinal Rule of Defensive Cycling: FRAP. Even a turn lane has edge markers and 99% of cars going through leave enough room on either side of the central 6' to make even an idiot move like the kid pulled, not be a fatal accident.
I certainly use turn lanes while riding. Note: I do not ride at night and this accident linked by the OP was at night (time?). So, I certainly might do things differently if riding int he dark.

When I first took up cycling about 5 years ago, I started out doing "box turns" (essentially going straight, maybe via a crosswalk, stopping then setting up to go the other direction. But it didn't take long to figure out this seemed much less safe. Of course, if everyone is obeying the light, the cars should be stopping for the light and it should be safe. But the real issue are vehicles making "right on red" turns which are often more like (slow a little and turn without looking), and it is even more dangerous.

Also concerning FRAP (far right as practicable), I definitely DO NOT do that in turns lanes. It's inviting a car to pass very close to you. Sure, if you are stopped waiting and in the middle of the turn lane and a car comes up and is stopping for the red light, or worse running the light, but not seeing you, they would hit you. But you're much more visible in the center of the lane. I do keep an eye out, via a mirror on my sunglasses, and note cars coming up behind and that they are in fact slowing down. I've never had one not slow and I'm not sure what I'd do if they didn't, but I'd have a moment to try something.

And sure, I would agree if you stay to the side of a traffic or turn lane, you may get lucky and the red light runner will miss you. But, you're out of the normal line of sight for a driver and this brings on other dangers. No matter what accident a cyclist is involved in with a car, you can show that had the cyclist been in a different place they wouldn't have been hit. But no place is perfectly safe all the time under all conditions. We had a cyclist killed on a MUP, by an aggressive driver that clipped another car lost control went up over a berm and hit the cyclist.

There can be subtle differences at each intersection. Sometimes the intersections are even identical, but the traffic flows are different, and I adjust accordingly.
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Old 02-21-24, 11:46 PM
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Other news sources report the accident as happening after 9 pm with a light rain falling. Pretty lousy conditions to be out riding.
Palo Alto News
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Old 02-22-24, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclic_eric
Other news sources report the accident as happening after 9 pm with a light rain falling. Pretty lousy conditions to be out riding.
Palo Alto News
You can't be serious. That woman had every right to cycle in any weather short of a F5 Hurricane. I have plenty of fair weather only cycling friends and they have enough nous NOT to feel superior about it.
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Old 02-22-24, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclic_eric
Other news sources report the accident as happening after 9 pm with a light rain falling. Pretty lousy conditions to be out riding.
Palo Alto News
hope that thought logic doesnt spread to those that ride all year for general commuting & those that cycle in the snow cold wintery season.
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Old 02-22-24, 08:41 AM
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I looked at the intersection (Newell Rd & Embarcadero Rd) and there's nothing crazy looking about that roadway -- Very Sad.

This reminds me of a near hit I was involved in a few years ago. I was sitting at a Red light (I was the only person there) and I got this sense of something behind me, so I looked and I see this car barreling down the road (45-mph zone) and I'm thinking, "surely they're going to start slowing down...". And then they start blowing the horn; I guess they're thinking I'm some dumb cyclist blocking the road. I started making circles across the line where vehicles are suppose to stop. That lady blew thru the Red light and gestured something to me, as if to say WTF you idiot

I think she was so focused on me that she didn't see the Red light, luckily for her this was early on a Sunday morning, so there was not much traffic.



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Old 02-22-24, 09:00 AM
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No superior feelings on my part. This is a terrible, tragic accident that killed a fellow bicyclist.
I'm so awfully saddened that it happened. Certainly everyone has a right to cycle in any weather or time of day and be safe in doing so.

Embarcadero Road near Rinconda Park in Palo Alto is a straight, narrow road where cars drive at high speed. Although everyone has a right to be there, it is certainly a dangerous place to be.
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Old 02-22-24, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclic_eric
Other news sources report the accident as happening after 9 pm with a light rain falling. Pretty lousy conditions to be out riding.
Palo Alto News
I wondered about the timing. I was on Oregon Expwy just before 9 pm in a light rain.

RIP.

I hope they find the two drivers who hit her and didn't stop.
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Old 02-23-24, 03:38 PM
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I think it's fair to say that this was something akin to a freak accident. However, we all need to be aware of the hazards we face, even when stationary, waiting on a light. My old commuting route involved a place where I needed to make a left turn from one residential 2 way (2 lanes + parked cars) street with a light, to another of the same type. Normally that would mean stopping toward the left of the driving lane making my intent clear, which is what I do. However, since traffic coming from the right likes to cut left turns to make a wider arc, I make it a practice to stop well back.

The above is by way of example of how we need to adapt ourselves to situations, because we cannot trust others to adapt to us, regardless of the rules.

As for making a so-called Copenhagen Left, as the OP described, that remains the exception for me, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
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Old 02-23-24, 10:11 PM
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I was hit from behind once. I was in the dual turn lane, that was positioned in the middle of a four-lane 40mph road. It was PM-Rush. I got out of the southbound thru lane, thinking I would be safer there for a moment. Until I was rear-ended while waiting at a red light. Thankfully, The driver didn't speed off. He was both verbally, and financially apologetic.
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Old 02-27-24, 02:03 AM
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My condolences to her family. This sucks out loud.

But at least she was wearing a helmet! /sarcasm
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Old 02-27-24, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Calsun
With any traffic at all I will go straight across and intersection and then wait for the light to change and complete the "left turn". I will never get in a left turn lane in an effort to save a few minutes of my time.

Seems like you'd be at least as likely to be hit from behind waiting at a red light in the rightmost lane as in the left turn lane.
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Old 02-27-24, 11:56 AM
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At an intersection it is safest to behave like a pedestrian and not try to mimic a motor vehicle. Drivers are seldom fully attentive and focused on the road ahead and if they do not perceive the profile of a person on a bicycle, which is most unusual and so not expected, they can accidentally drive into that person.

It is not a question of legality but of survival for a bicycle rider on the roads. Fifty years ago John Forester wrote about how to safely navigate the streets where he lived, which happened to be in Palo Alto. What he wrote about in the 1970's is valid today. To trust that drivers will notice a pedestrian or a bicyclist and act appropriately is to bet ones life.

A woman was recently convicted of a double homicide as a result of her driving at 81 mph through a crosswalk and killing two boys. Her conviction does nothing for her victims or the parents. I find the idea of a rear camera recording a car hitting a person on a bicycle of use only to the heirs should they decide to sue the driver. It does absolutely nothing for the person on the bicycle.
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Old 02-27-24, 01:12 PM
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RATS!

Bad all around...
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Old 02-27-24, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Calsun
At an intersection it is safest to behave like a pedestrian and not try to mimic a motor vehicle. Drivers are seldom fully attentive and focused on the road ahead and if they do not perceive the profile of a person on a bicycle, which is most unusual and so not expected, they can accidentally drive into that person.

It is not a question of legality but of survival for a bicycle rider on the roads. Fifty years ago John Forester wrote about how to safely navigate the streets where he lived, which happened to be in Palo Alto. What he wrote about in the 1970's is valid today. To trust that drivers will notice a pedestrian or a bicyclist and act appropriately is to bet ones life.
Wrong.
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Old 02-27-24, 04:19 PM
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How does a cyclist passing thru an intersection act like a pedestrian?



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Old 02-27-24, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Calsun
At an intersection it is safest to behave like a pedestrian and not try to mimic a motor vehicle......
I'm confused. You reference Forrester, then talk.about acting like a pedestrian. The dots don't connect. Am I missing something?

As an urban commuter, I've always found that acting as exactly what I am ------ a bicyclist is best all around.

I'm neither a pedestrian, nor a motorist and pretending otherwise doesn't work.

So, I ride as a vehicle, albeit s slow moving one, less visible than most of the vehicles around me. So, I ride smart, make sure I'm seen, telegraph moves, anticipate dangerous situations and mitigate the hazards as best I can.

If I had to choose my nearest cousin on the road, it would be a motorcyclist, since we share many of the risks.

So, for me, there are no rules, and everything is about situations.

BTW if I felt the need to ride like a pedestrian, I might as well be one, and take the bus.
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Old 02-27-24, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
I'm confused. You reference Forrester, then talk.about acting like a pedestrian. The dots don't connect. Am I missing something?

As an urban commuter, I've always found that acting as exactly what I am ------ a bicyclist is best all around.

I'm neither a pedestrian, nor a motorist and pretending otherwise doesn't work.

So, I ride as a vehicle, albeit s slow moving one, less visible than most of the vehicles around me. So, I ride smart, make sure I'm seen, telegraph moves, anticipate dangerous situations and mitigate the hazards as best I can.

If I had to choose my nearest cousin on the road, it would be a motorcyclist, since we share many of the risks.

So, for me, there are no rules, and everything is about situations.

BTW if I felt the need to ride like a pedestrian, I might as well be one, and take the bus.
Now with e-bikes you have the added fun of a vehicle with about the same form-factor as human powered, but with much higher potential speed.

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Old 02-28-24, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
I'm confused. You reference Forrester, then talk.about acting like a pedestrian. The dots don't connect. Am I missing something?
You didn't miss anything. You are not the poster who is confused.
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Old 02-28-24, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by scott967
Now with e-bikes you have the added fun of a vehicle with about the same form-factor as human powered, but with much higher potential speed.

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They are getting fast as fuk


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Old 02-28-24, 11:51 AM
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By what stretch of the imagination is this NOT a motorcycle?

IMO motorcycles sold and used as electri bicycles will eventually lead to crackdown and harm to the category.

I think back to the boom and bust of mopeds years ago.
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Old 02-29-24, 10:18 AM
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Don’t know if it would have helped much in this instance, but I am an advocate of having the brightest rear flashing light possible, especially in low light situations. I see plenty of cyclists using ridiculously weak low intensity flashers that sometimes I don’t see until I am a few bike lengths behind them. Now, think of a car at far greater speed difference. My Varia is visible for at least a half mile and maybe more. There are far cheaper flashers than Varia with equal or greater intensity. I know it won’t do anything for a distracted driver, but for those paying a bit of attention, it is cheap insurance. Upgrade yours if it does’t hurt to look at from a few feet away. (This message was not sponsored by the Bright Rear Flasher Coalition, or any of it subsidiaries - batteries not included. )
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Old 02-29-24, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Don’t know if it would have helped much in this instance, but I am an advocate of having the brightest rear flashing light possible, especially in low light situations......
Anything you can do to make you more obvious at a greater distance helps. It's about time, the farther back a driver can see you, the greater the interval to adjust, or look up from his cell phone and FINALLY see you.

BTW- this is one reason that I use a flashing amber tail light. Flashing amber is reserved for various hazards like construction barriers, holes in the ground, emergency vehicles, etc. BITD before NYS changed the law, these weren't legal, and I'd periodically be stopped and have to explain that drivers respect hazards (to them) much more than they do bicyclists. Moreover, since amber typically means a stationary hazard, drivers are more likely so slow sooner than they might for a red light they could assume is moving at their speed.

Back when I supplied PDs with lights for bike patrols, I used a blue police strobe on the rear on my commuter bike. It commanded plenty of respect, making drivers slow and give more room. Unfortunately, that had to be limited to routes where I was known to those on patrol.
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