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Man attacks 2 cyclists

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Old 06-06-26 | 04:42 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Eyes Roll
I carry pepper spray. After extensive research, I narrowed it down to POM pepper spray. As a daily bike commuter, for the past 2 years, I always keep it in the front pocket of my safety vest whenever I ride. As crazy as it sounds, I frequently ride 15-plus miles of heavily wooded trails after 9 p.m., a time when I rarely see other pedestrians. (Again, as crazy as it sounds) In addition to the pepper spray, I carry a folding pocket knife at night, for self-defense. While I am not concerned about motorists, I am always prepared to defend myself against a random stranger who might emerge from the trees to try to rob me. My preparation stems from the fact that I am a survivor of armed robbery in the past. Ironically, that incident happened while I was sitting in my parked car in a busy downtown area with lots of people walking nearby.

I am about to order a new POM pepper spray. I've heard they lose their potency after about 2 years.
Is the gel illegal where you live? I carry Sabre gel, because it won't get easily blown by the wind. Also, don't count on your pocket knife as a weapon. I carry one as a tool, but with sweaty hands that thing is gonna slip and cut yourself, and as I mentioned before it carries legal ramifications that you don't want to deal with. If you find yourself in a physical altercation (this assumes de-escalation has failed or not been possible), you want something that will disable your attacker long enough for you to get the duck out of dodge whilst avoiding messy legal consequences.
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Old 06-06-26 | 05:15 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Kontact
So? Does anyone think there is a nationwide scourge of drivers getting out of their vehicles to assault cyclists?

This is one isolated incident, but you guys want to talk about it like its a major trend worthy of a universal response by cyclists.
That was neither expressed nor implied. However, this incident is yet another to stack on top of the pile that have already happened, which have been written about in news articles and/or been published in online videos. The theme among them is clear: If the cyclists involved had implements to protect themselves, the outcomes likely would have been different.

Originally Posted by Kontact
Meanwhile, there are groups that do face actual systemic attacks, and there is the general risk that everyone bears of random violence that is unrelated to lycra shorts. But neither of those categories are cycling related.
And they have their own dedicated forums for discussing their plight.

Originally Posted by Kontact
If folks want to talk about self defense for those riding with minimal gear - great idea. Pepper spray/gel is good for dogs as well. Your bike can also be used as a barrier, like how riot cops use them. Frame pumps are useful, too. But this incident contains no general lessons about common driver behavior or common preparations cyclists should make because they are cycling. It seems more like the tendency on this board for cyclists to feel as if they are some special group of beleaguered citizens that are targets of massive levels of discrimination. It is weird.
I hope I didn't convey the sentiment that attacks against cyclists are frequent, because that wasn't my intent. However, there is something to be said about the probability of an event versus its cost to the person/people involved. I'm sure you carry homeowners insurance on your house. What is the probability that your house will be leveled by some rare natural disaster? Pretty low. However, what is the cost to you for not having said insurance if/when it's needed? Astronomical. I'm also willing to bet you wear a seat belt every time you drive your car, but the probability of getting into a crash where you'd need the seat belt to save your life is also very low. And yet, the personal cost for not wearing it when it's needed is incredibly high (life-altering injury or death). I don't think it's unreasonable to recommend that cyclists carry a 1.5-ounce can of pepper gel in the unlikely event they need it, because the cost of not having it when needed is rather high. It's also the best bang for the buck not just in terms of money spent but also in terms of legal hassle.
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Old 06-06-26 | 08:48 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by JW Fas
That was neither expressed nor implied. However, this incident is yet another to stack on top of the pile that have already happened, which have been written about in news articles and/or been published in online videos. The theme among them is clear: If the cyclists involved had implements to protect themselves, the outcomes likely would have been different.



And they have their own dedicated forums for discussing their plight.



I hope I didn't convey the sentiment that attacks against cyclists are frequent, because that wasn't my intent. However, there is something to be said about the probability of an event versus its cost to the person/people involved. I'm sure you carry homeowners insurance on your house. What is the probability that your house will be leveled by some rare natural disaster? Pretty low. However, what is the cost to you for not having said insurance if/when it's needed? Astronomical. I'm also willing to bet you wear a seat belt every time you drive your car, but the probability of getting into a crash where you'd need the seat belt to save your life is also very low. And yet, the personal cost for not wearing it when it's needed is incredibly high (life-altering injury or death). I don't think it's unreasonable to recommend that cyclists carry a 1.5-ounce can of pepper gel in the unlikely event they need it, because the cost of not having it when needed is rather high. It's also the best bang for the buck not just in terms of money spent but also in terms of legal hassle.
A pile of incidents that often seem to be related only in that someone had a bike. While it is true that cyclists annoy some motorists, it isn't like the enraged have secret meetings to conspire against us. The wacko in the OP's story happened to attack cyclists. He might have been 20 seconds away from assaulting a tree.


Spend some time on a gun forum and you'll see how far down the "better to be prepared" self defense rabbit hole people end up going. It is not healthy.
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Old 06-06-26 | 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JW Fas
Is the gel illegal where you live? I carry Sabre gel, because it won't get easily blown by the wind.
Both are legal. But, I think I went with POM due to the recommendation from John from Active Self Protection Extra. I think I paid $12 at that time, so, cost was also a factor.

Originally Posted by JW Fas
Also, don't count on your pocket knife as a weapon. I carry one as a tool, but with sweaty hands that thing is gonna slip and cut yourself, and as I mentioned before it carries legal ramifications that you don't want to deal with. If you find yourself in a physical altercation (this assumes de-escalation has failed or not been possible), you want something that will disable your attacker long enough for you to get the duck out of dodge whilst avoiding messy legal consequences.
If I'm faced with two options:
(1) suffering an injury/serious injury, or
(2) successfully defending myself and dealing with the legal consequences later.

I will always choose (2). There’s no second-guessing it.

In America, you cannot wait for someone else—including the police—to protect you; it simply won't happen. You have to be your own first responder. I know this from firsthand experience, as I am currently living my second chance at life.

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Old 06-06-26 | 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact

This is one isolated incident, but you guys want to talk about it like its a major trend worthy of a universal response by cyclists. Meanwhile, there are groups that do face actual systemic attacks, and there is the general risk that everyone bears of random violence that is unrelated to lycra shorts. But neither of those categories are cycling related…
from the article :
They told FOX 8 that it is not uncommon for the 42-year-old man to drive aggressively and confront people on bicycles, even small children. That's why they are not surprised by the incident that sparked Wednesday's standoff.
so this guy displays (allegedly) a pattern of aggressive behavior towards cyclists and allegedly hits one in this incident. the issue is that nobody did anything about the previous incidents, which makes it more than an isolated incident but rather the result of an unsurprising lack of enforcement against his past behavior. you’ve got to be pretty bad for your neighbors to know that you aggressively confront children on bicycles, and any reasonable community’s law enforcement entities would take action. but they didn’t.
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Old 06-06-26 | 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett
from the article :


so this guy displays (allegedly) a pattern of aggressive behavior towards cyclists and allegedly hits one in this incident. the issue is that nobody did anything about the previous incidents, which makes it more than an isolated incident but rather the result of an unsurprising lack of enforcement against his past behavior. you’ve got to be pretty bad for your neighbors to know that you aggressively confront children on bicycles, and any reasonable community’s law enforcement entities would take action. but they didn’t.
What does this one person's psychosis have to do with you, me or cyclists in general?
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Old 06-07-26 | 10:27 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Kontact
What does this one person's psychosis have to do with you, me or cyclists in general?

You could ask the cyclists who were assaulted.
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Old 06-07-26 | 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
You could ask the cyclists who were assaulted.
You want me to ask a specific cyclist about cyclists in general?
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Old 06-07-26 | 10:51 AM
  #34  
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I'm confused why this is even seen as a topic for discussion. Drivers assault other drivers as well as cyclist. If we were to dig enough, we can probably find a example where a cyclist committed assault and battery to another cyclist. Anyone that's been to a bar as a teen or young adult knows that you have to be wary of those that anger easily.

Assault in many states only requires that one feels reasonably certain the other person intended to harm them. Though proving that in a court will have some hurdles. Even with video evidence. Unless it went to the next step of battery where the victim will have injury to show as evidence also.
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