Sometimes there is nothing you can do (close call)
01-25-06, 10:28 PM
#101
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by whoosh!
i wasnt trying to instigate, be rude, or whatever. i'm not on anyones side in this debate, which is why it probaly seemed to come from left field. i was trying to illustrate to you why a large majority of ss/fg riders ride the way we do. a large majority of ss/fg riders are couriers. i have rent to come up with each month, i have a stomach that needs groceries, i have bike parts to buy.
the only way i can do this is by making atleast 15 runs a day, which entails a whole hell of a lot of "reckless" riding.
it's not pointless thrill seeking. i'd be into bungee-jumping if thats what i wanted.
it's how i make money.
the only way i can do this is by making atleast 15 runs a day, which entails a whole hell of a lot of "reckless" riding.
it's not pointless thrill seeking. i'd be into bungee-jumping if thats what i wanted.
it's how i make money.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
01-25-06, 11:34 PM
#102
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Posts: 16,681
Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
Don't you just love it when a thread signals its intention to go in one direction, then suddenly and for no apparent reason goes off in a completely different one! 
01-26-06, 06:36 AM
#103
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,978
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,538 Times
in
1,047 Posts
Originally Posted by Expatriate
I have no sympathy for anyone that rides like a complete idiot in traffic. They know they risks, and they are going to push things as far as they can. They're in it to see how close they can get. But that's a far cry from a messenger who's not taking any extra risk, and is extremely vigilant, because he wants to get home to his family and put some bread on the table.
Why is it so hard to see that?
Why is it so hard to see that?
1.They need to ride this way to earn a living; just like swerving cabbies and 85mph OTR truck drivers.
2. The riding only appears to be reckless, isn't really reckless at all, because messengers are a special breed of cyclists who due to their superior skills, vigilance, lightning fast reflexes, and/or alcohol/meth blood level are immune to the laws of government and physics.
And besides the tatoo fetish and fixed gear shtick enables the stylin' ridin' to counteract the bad karma.
01-26-06, 08:56 AM
#104
Dances With Cars
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 10,527
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It's not difficult to criticize the riding style of messengers and how they interact with traffic. In fact it's quite easy. All that dodging and weaving and disregard for the rules of the road, must be annoying to someone who only commutes or goes on training rides for their weekend racing. Now imagine living it, all day everyday. It's not for the money, generally these types you complain about are in it for the love of cycling.
Professional racers blanche at the thought of how much time a messenger spends in the saddle. I know because as a messenger I had the opportunity to talk to a pro rider about this very subject. WE ride more..ALOT more. Don't crit what you don't understand. Messers riding styles differ from city to city. NYC and Montreal's messengers are a generally insane, super fast, bobbing and weaving bunch with little regard for the rules of the road. Now look where they ride. Jay walkers everywhere popping off sidewalks in between cars, streaming en mass across red lit walkways simply because there is no car. Cars weaving in and out, doubling parking just to get a paper. Get the picture? Now look at Toronto, less Jaywalking cars generally better behaved. When I first moved I was so amused at the fact most TO messers actually stopped at lights...something I rarely did in Montreal.
Now, why? the owners of these companies hire as many bikers as they want because they mostly get paid by commission, per run as it were. No benefits and he'll hire more than he actually needs so that all his packages make it in time. So in some situations it's impossible for the rider to make a decent wage. Bear in mind the best riders... the fastest, will generally try to stay away from companies like these. You gotta hustle in make the money honey, even in a good company.
Like professional members of any sport, there is a condition that can occur where the game actually seems to slow down for the player, or rather the players' mind is sped up to process the action faster than say a normal commuter or week-end racer out for a training ride. You can train the body, but only after intensive high output engagement can the brain be trained to do this. I've achieved that level of riding ability and now after years of no longer being a messenger I can still do it, carving the lanes at almost full speed, but it's not full speed to me in fact the cars are barely moving. Call it gunslinger reaction or whatever, but I can carve around the front bumper of a car in the gap of time from when I hear the engine rev and the car move, a split second is an eternity. Don't slag a messers' riding simply because you don't understand it, he's ALOT closer to a TDF rider than you know, in both perceptions of speed and bike skills.
I'm terribly sorry for the rant but you can't dis messers until you've been one period. AS well imagine how you would change how you do your job if you were paid per piece, per call, etc. Think you'd take a couple more chances in a day? No? Liar...
Professional racers blanche at the thought of how much time a messenger spends in the saddle. I know because as a messenger I had the opportunity to talk to a pro rider about this very subject. WE ride more..ALOT more. Don't crit what you don't understand. Messers riding styles differ from city to city. NYC and Montreal's messengers are a generally insane, super fast, bobbing and weaving bunch with little regard for the rules of the road. Now look where they ride. Jay walkers everywhere popping off sidewalks in between cars, streaming en mass across red lit walkways simply because there is no car. Cars weaving in and out, doubling parking just to get a paper. Get the picture? Now look at Toronto, less Jaywalking cars generally better behaved. When I first moved I was so amused at the fact most TO messers actually stopped at lights...something I rarely did in Montreal.
Now, why? the owners of these companies hire as many bikers as they want because they mostly get paid by commission, per run as it were. No benefits and he'll hire more than he actually needs so that all his packages make it in time. So in some situations it's impossible for the rider to make a decent wage. Bear in mind the best riders... the fastest, will generally try to stay away from companies like these. You gotta hustle in make the money honey, even in a good company.
Like professional members of any sport, there is a condition that can occur where the game actually seems to slow down for the player, or rather the players' mind is sped up to process the action faster than say a normal commuter or week-end racer out for a training ride. You can train the body, but only after intensive high output engagement can the brain be trained to do this. I've achieved that level of riding ability and now after years of no longer being a messenger I can still do it, carving the lanes at almost full speed, but it's not full speed to me in fact the cars are barely moving. Call it gunslinger reaction or whatever, but I can carve around the front bumper of a car in the gap of time from when I hear the engine rev and the car move, a split second is an eternity. Don't slag a messers' riding simply because you don't understand it, he's ALOT closer to a TDF rider than you know, in both perceptions of speed and bike skills.
I'm terribly sorry for the rant but you can't dis messers until you've been one period. AS well imagine how you would change how you do your job if you were paid per piece, per call, etc. Think you'd take a couple more chances in a day? No? Liar...
01-26-06, 12:52 PM
#105
Banned.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer
I know because as a messenger I had the opportunity to talk to a pro rider about this very subject. WE ride more..ALOT more.
...
Don't slag a messers' riding simply because you don't understand it, he's ALOT closer to a TDF rider than you know, in both perceptions of speed and bike skills.
...
Don't slag a messers' riding simply because you don't understand it, he's ALOT closer to a TDF rider than you know, in both perceptions of speed and bike skills.
---
Hours in the saddle, is meaningless... The difference between even the best messers' and the TDF rider is huge, and it's measured in terms of how long one can sustain 30-40 mph speeds... for seconds, or for hours per day, day after day.
01-26-06, 01:33 PM
#106
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Posts: 16,681
Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It is so hard, because if I read correctly the intent of certain posters, including yourself - Messengers who appear to be riding recklessly should be exempt from criticism because:
1.They need to ride this way to earn a living; just like swerving cabbies and 85mph OTR truck drivers.
2. The riding only appears to be reckless, isn't really reckless at all, because messengers are a special breed of cyclists who due to their superior skills, vigilance, lightning fast reflexes, and/or alcohol/meth blood level are immune to the laws of government and physics.
And besides the tatoo fetish and fixed gear shtick enables the stylin' ridin' to counteract the bad karma.
1.They need to ride this way to earn a living; just like swerving cabbies and 85mph OTR truck drivers.
2. The riding only appears to be reckless, isn't really reckless at all, because messengers are a special breed of cyclists who due to their superior skills, vigilance, lightning fast reflexes, and/or alcohol/meth blood level are immune to the laws of government and physics.
And besides the tatoo fetish and fixed gear shtick enables the stylin' ridin' to counteract the bad karma.
01-26-06, 01:42 PM
#107
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer
I'm terribly sorry for the rant but you can't dis messers until you've been one period. AS well imagine how you would change how you do your job if you were paid per piece, per call, etc. Think you'd take a couple more chances in a day? No? Liar...
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
01-26-06, 02:09 PM
#108
----
Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
Don't you just love it when a thread signals its intention to go in one direction, then suddenly and for no apparent reason goes off in a completely different one!
I guess sometimes there is nothing you can do.
01-26-06, 03:13 PM
#109
Geosynchronous Falconeer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 6,312
Bikes: 2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Expatriate
Right. And what is the public perception of cyclists in NYC? The guys that aren't making those videos for "cheap thrills" have done wonders for the image of cyclists everywhere.
Originally Posted by MDRawk
Hey, Lucas Brunel Brenelle rides gears. As does 1/2 the people in his videos. Roadies can be so arrogant.
__________________
Bring the pain.
Bring the pain.
01-26-06, 03:14 PM
#110
Dances With Cars
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 10,527
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by chipcom
Refer to post 102. Once you do you'll understand when I say, once again, HORSEPUCKY.
lol.... I'm referring to slaggin messers for the way they ride in traffic. Been like that since time begat.
AS for SS/FG or even full gears....messers ride like that in the course of their daily rounds.
01-26-06, 11:38 PM
#111
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,978
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,538 Times
in
1,047 Posts
Originally Posted by Expatriate
You don't read correctly if you are including myself in that group. End of story.
01-27-06, 07:01 PM
#113
is as Gurgus does.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Otisburg
Posts: 910
Bikes: A whole bunch o' bikes.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by chipcom
Is a lack of sense of humor another broad stereotype we need to apply? Or are the zingers just way over your heads?
