What relevant topic are you going to bring up to try to divert this discussion next, Bek? Your penchant for an evening of sipping Kirschwasser while playing Mensch ärgere dich nicht with the rest of the Gang? Woo hoo, double sixes!

What are you jibberjabbering about, Mr. HEAD?

I said something, briefly, about 'traffic calming', to I-like-to-bike.

What does a bicyclist do when 'notions' about New Urbanism give them communities with cohesive velotransit plans to meet the constructs of on-roadway engineering warrants?

Here's some solid "notions" about bikes and cars. The Dutch "Notions" of Woonerfs, the German method of Tempo roadway design, and using traffic calming and a cohesive "Notion" of Wohnstrassen are legitimate, on the ground designs for livable, bikeable communities.

A principle Notion of a Woonerf is that a street is valuable public space and should be shared by all users. Streets may be designed to allow bicyclists, walkers, and lesiure seekers to share the space with cars safely and without conflict. Street space should be primarily laid out for slow traffic....The car is not the enemy; overspecialization of street space for car use is. (Zuckerman, 1991)

New Urbanism, and American civic engineering for livable communities will take on different design than the German or Dutch systems, but "Notions" of creating more livable communities are upon us in the designs of the changing American landscape.

These "Notions" will help build more bikeable communities; anyone not on board with these 'notions' of greater accomodation on roadways and building more bikeable and livable communities,
just might be riding around with Helmet Head in his RV, hufffing gas at three-umpteen a gallon.

OK, I think this has gone far enough.

Bekologist, I-Like-To-Bike and HelmetHead: take a deep breath. Go out and ride. Take a chill pill, if you need to. Read the Forum Guidelines, specifically the parts that deal with harassment, disruptive posts and respecting other members. Put people in ignore if you feel you cannot disagree with them respectfully.

Whatever you do, please make sure you quit with all the personal attacks, disruptive posts (as in turning every thread into a pro vs anti VC tirade) and tearing each other's posts apart to find some detail to fiercely disagree with. I'm not just talking about this thread, I'm talking about Advocacy and Safety in general.

In short, I'm asking you nicely to cool down, to give each other some slack and to follow the guidelines. As far as this thread goes, I don't think this discussion is going anywhere anymore. Thread closed.

Any questions, please PM me. Thank you.

--Juha, a Forum Mod