The farce is strong in you, young trike peddler.

In my case, my contention is that VCer's ride like the rest of us, that practical cycling techniques existed long before the term was ever coined. It's the old chicken-egg debate...I say chicken, you say egg, but in the end it's all the same.

What you seem to be arguing (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that since practical cycling techniques existed long before the term vehicular cycling was coined, you object to referring to a methodology largely based on these techniques as anything, including vehicular cycling.

If so, that's not a chicken-egg debate.

To apply your reasoning to chickens and eggs would be to argue that since chickens and eggs existed long before the terms chicken and egg were coined, you object to referring to them to as chickens and eggs (or anything else for that matter).

Or, it's like saying that since capitalism existed before the term was coined, we shouldn't call it capitalism.

Do you object to calling defensive driving defensive driving since many drivers practiced careful practical driving techniques before they were assembled into a methodology now refereed to as "defensive driving"?

That's a good idea. How about we hammer it out here, and then post the consensus version as an OP.

Here are some places to start looking for basic tips:

bicyclesafe.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_safety
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling


Here is a start of a list. So that it evolves into our consensus version, please copy/paste this list, then add your tips to it. Once it has settled to a consensus version, I'll post it in an OP.

1. Make sure bike's brakes, drivetrain and tires are all working correctly.
2. Obey the rules of the road.
3. Ride on the same side of the road as vehicular traffic, not on the other side opposing traffic.
4. Ride on the road, not on the sidewalk.
5. Choose lane position to be visible and predictable.
6. Learn to look back without veering from your path.
7. Ride outside of door zones - no closer than about 5 feet from the edge of parked cars.
8. Learn to negotiate for lane position with vehicular traffic in preparation for inside (left in the U.S.; right in England) turns.
9. Avoid the outside edge of the roadway, especially at intersections and their approaches.
10. Between intersections (but not at them or their approaches), yield to faster traffic by moving temporarily to the outside of the roadway, until the faster traffic has passed. Learn to use a mirror to monitor for faster traffic approaching from behind so you know when to yield.

That's just a rough start off the top of my head. What else?
Remember: Please copy/paste this list, and then modify it.

Grind the organ and the monkey dances.

I like the Advocacy Forum because the various transportation philosophies are made explicit here. It's like having a political forum with a mix of Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Communists, Fascists, and Marxists, and some Trotsky-ites thrown in! Thus allowing me to hone my transpo-philosophy and rhetoric in contrast to the proponents of the various camps. Even identifying the various camps is useful, fun, and enlightening. Makes me question my own positions.

Well, yeah, if grinding the organ means taking absurd positions (like objecting to using a term to refer to something that existed before the term was coined) and dancing means pointing that out. I guess you like the sound of that nonsense organ, Chip, cuz that seems to be the only tune you're playing these days.

I come here for visions of ground monkey and dancing organs. Oh, wait...

Seriously, this forum has been very helpful to me, and it provides some entertainment as well as information. The internet brings out the inner jerk in lots of people, so it's not surprising that it gets a bit nasty at time. These arguments are informative, though repetitive. I'm sure that most new people read these threads for a while when they first find the forum, then tune most of it static out.

Me, little HH and Diane...in younger, happier daze...

Stop complaining about the dancing monkey to the monkey - it's the organ grinders that you need to stop, from playing their nonsense tunes.

What Ive gotten from it is that its time to re-evaluate my riding style.
For that I am thankful. Im am more conscious of certain things and am a
little more assertive. That being said, my other determination was that there
is nothing that 'wrong' with the the way I had been riding. Im perfectly happy
with it. Im not going to feel guilty about being an Ally Kat instead of an Alpha Dog.
People in this forum know well each others views so after a point a lot of the
posts are just an excersice in redundancy. Mine included
To answer the original question.....my views all together are pretty much unchanged.

I kind of like the bickering. it's like Wiley Coyote and the roadrunner. Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd. Tom and Jerry. wouldn't be the same without HH and Chipcom or ILTB going at each other!

Nope, I don't ride VC. I don't plan to, either.

No you don't.

Well, then, I'm sure there's room for you in the Gang of Geniuses.

Do you even know what VC is?
What do you do that is contrary to riding VC?

Perhaps you don't ride 'VC', but you must at least on occasion at ride according to the vehicular rules of the road?
Al

I believe wsexon is the member who said he rides into the oncoming traffic? Perhaps I have him confused with someone else.

Perhaps!

There is no difference.
No one, not even car drivers, obey the rules of the road all the time.

No, but I do ride according to state law.

Yes I do. It is silly dogma for people that like to tell other people how they should live their lives.

Well, then, you're probably right, because one could easily be in compliance with the letter of the law but not traveling in accordance to the rules of the road (e.g., passing on the right is legal in most states, but arguably contradictory to the rules of the road except when the passed vehicle is stopped waiting for oncoming traffic to clear to turn left).

Incorrect.

By the way, you should change your life so you would know this.

Good example of divergence between concepts and reality. I don't plan to cycle by the "rules of the road" as long as real life traffic on the roads does not. My purpose is to get somewhere, not to follow some set of hypothetical "rules".

Entirely correct.