sggoodri

Exactly. Some of the forum participants here have posted photos of bike lanes that I would consider "good" designs, that look like I would enjoy riding on those roads (wide bike lane, very high speed road, high traffic volume, few junctions, no roadside hazards like door zones, pavement is clean) more because of the bike lane, than without it. Even, I dare say, with just a wide outside lane (at least, a narrower 14' lane compared to the 12' lane plus 8' bike lane in some of those photos). As I have said before, I think there are some special situations where the user separation striping may provide operational improvements. Just not where they have been installed in Cary, to which the LAB awarded Bicycle Friendly Community status.

The primary purpose of the existing striping projects in Cary was for the city to be able to claim that it installed N miles of bike lanes. The presupposition here was that bike lane striping is inherently good. This is the problem with bike lane striping advocacy purely for the sake of putting separating stripes on the ground. It ignores the real operational issues while creating new territorial conflicts and confusion about road rules where none previously existed. Unfortunately, the bike lane advocates' (including the League of American Bicyclists through their BFC program) clear emphasis on quantity of bike lane miles rather than quality of street design is making this problem worse. This is what I mean when I claim problems with the extreme pro-bikeway agenda of "segregation for the sake of segregation."

Bekologist

steve, if you've got local problems with integrated bikelane design, take it up with your city planners. maybe some of your arterials in cary would benefit from integrated road stripes that benefit bicyclists, so larger numbers of bicyclists would feel comfortable riding arterials thruout the greater Cary area. I'm sure you've got sprawl in Cary, and i'm sure you've got increasing auto traffic as population trends scontinue to centralize population around cities.

your desire to keep bicycle commuter numbers low in Cary as a result of your ideas is evident. are you part of the american dream coalition like John Forester?

www.americandreamcoalition.org

Integrating bike lanes into roadway striping plans is not seperation, it is preferential road striping. a lane on the road is a lane on the road. transit lanes, bus lanes....buses can use other lanes, and i doubt you would damnify a bus as being seperated from road traffic.

so you prefer bike lanes for some roads, steve. increase bike facilties in your community and you WILL see the numbers of bicyclists grow, far beyond the increases simple autocentric wide lanes will bring.

People like you, Steve, don't want to popularize bicycling as transportation....

sggoodri

Here's another example of a street where I don't think adding striping would improve conditions for anyone, regardless of the volume of bicycle traffic:

Bekologist

Is sharing increasingly congested car lanes practical as numbers of bicyclists increase in a community?

Would consideration of bicycles while designing road striping plans benefit bicyclists' transit of large numbers of bicyclists thru a community congested with auto traffic?

must be nice steve, but i doubt all your roads are as idyllic as that picture. Certainly not strip mall roads, suburban drag strip arterials.

Have you ever ridden on high speed roads, Steve, getting honks from angry impatient drivers as you tootle along in the narrow lane?

sggoodri

Exactly! That's why I volunteer for the local bicycle commuting mentorship program, lead beginner bike rides around town, lobbied for a bicycle parking ordinance to require bike racks at destinations, report hazards on the side of the road, attend monthly regional government meetings on bike/ped planning, and host a web site on how to make better use of the roads we have:

https://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/

You've got me pegged!

sggoodri

Don't be ridiculous. My bike commute is mostly on a busy 4-lane arterial road with 11' outside lanes. I take the lane teh whole way and get a horn honk every dozen or so commutes. I support wider pavement to allow drivers to pass cyclists more easily, typically not changing lanes. I get no horn honks on the wide outside lane roads. I don't experience any significant delays due to backed-up traffic where I live. So wide outside lanes work perfectly well for me here. No need for user class separation striping.

On some freeway-like roads, I think adding striping to a 16' or wider lane might possibly increase safety compared to the wide lane, if the bike lane is maintained well. However, there are so few roads here that would qualify for this consideration, that it doesn't factor significantly into the overall desirability of bicycle transportation in the area.

Bekologist

very well and good, steve. you think my post you just quoted is ridiculous?

I do have you pegged as one of the 'bicycle drivers', yes.

what would happen if and when large numbers of bicyclists ride your arterial commute, mixing it up with congested traffic? Would cyclists demand better? would drivers? would some drivers become bicyclists?

what would happen if large numbers of riders took up roads like the busy 4 lane arterials along your commute? a few more honks? worse?

chipcom 

I don't totally agree. In this area cars would use that WOL as another travel lane and honk/harrass to high heaven any bike that was 'in their way'. If an area of roadway isn't specifically lined, marked and signed otherwise, motor vehicle drivers will assume ownership. Yes, that will sometimes happen no matter what lines, markings or signage there is, but not nearly as frequently, especially with proactive enforcement. Perhaps, if there was a large volume of cyclists using it on a consistent basis, motorist habits would adjust accordingly, but around here you are not going to get that kind of volume, especially in the winter.

Bekologist

i'm with chip on this one; restriping that road would improve conditions for both bikeability and driveability without limiting either mode of transit. Maybe its a slow road, rideable by many, but its rideability would increase with integrated road bike lane stripes.

I'm confident more riders would ride Steve's arterial commute with better accomodations. Just 'good enough for Steve' is not a realistic advocacy platform for populist bicycling, Steve.

chipcom 

A couple of other observations on those pics:

1. Looks to me like one has to take the lane going in the opposite direction in the bottom pic, with all those cars parked there.

2. Don't let N_C catch you posting pics of normal people enjoying a ride without a helmet.

sggoodri

The Spin Cycle bike shop https://www.thespincycle.com/ has a couple of group rides a week at 6PM on that exact road (Kildaire Farm Road). I often pass them headed southbound as I commute home northbound. I have participated in a couple of the rides but the time is not convenient for me.

The cyclists typically ride two-abreast in the right hand lane. Automobile drivers use the left (inside) lane to pass them. I've never seen more than a few cars traveling at reduced speed behind them waiting to merge into the inside lane to pass.

I don't remember hearing any horn honks when I've joined them on that road. Some co-workers asked me why the cyclists ride that road during rush hour. I said that it gets them from the bike shop to where they are going more safely and efficiently than the alternate routes, and that earlier or later ride times miss the window between work hours and the end of daylight. Not much debate beyond that.

Have you participated on any group rides on ordinary roads, where the cyclists take over a travel lane due to their numbers? I find it quite enjoyable.

I've got to go now - I want to go on a bike ride with my family to lunch. The new restaurant built a mile from my house has bike racks per the new Cary parking ordinance. I'll post a picture later.

Bekologist

get some pictures of your narrow lane commute while you're at it, steve. course, it will be on a saturday...

typically, large numbers of commuters do NOT ride like group riders. its a much more individual thing. not as much pacing, commuters tend to dislike drafters.

umm, i wonder why the drivers asked you about the group ride in rush hour traffic (not that it sounds like Cary even has much of a rush hour, if only a few cars are waiting behind a peloton of group fitness riders at rush hour.)

In some cities, a peloton wouldn't even be able to ride two abreast and expect any speed, traffic is pretty congested a lot of places.

donnamb 

I'm not big on group rides, but the ones I've been on have a totally different dynamic from large numbers of cyclists independently commuting to or from work.

sbhikes

Those are photos from Steve's town's Friday afternoon critical mass, don't you know.