randya

the truth is that our investment in private vehicles far exceeds our investment in roads

Little Darwin

If all limited access roads are made toll roads, then you can expect meatheads driving as fast as possible on the non-limited access roads to save the tolls. Personally, I don't think that is a good answer for transportation in general, and definitely not for bicyclists.

I personally don't want to see the few nice 2 lane roads congested with too many cars going too fast to save a couple of bucks each on tolls.

The whole highway system (and city/county roads in many areas) are in terrible shape because too much of the money has been spent on new roads instead of keeping the infrastructure up to par. It is easy to get a portion of the people more excited about a new highway to make their commute shorter than it is to get them committes to spending their tax dollars to fix the crumbling roads.

The Human Car

If a road is congested then cars are not moving that fast. One factor that got me on the bike is that there are too many congested roads here so I am as fast if not faster on my bike then going by car.

Little Darwin

While this may be true in Baltimore, there is no such thing as congestion on most roads where I ride, and they go by at the speed limit (or higher). I should have been clear that I was referring to a more rural setting. I am spoiled, and don't want to give it up. I live on what is one of the only major north/south highways that isn't limited access in my area, and in an average hour, I only see a couple of dozen cars. Obviously heavier during rush hour, but definitely nothing that inhibits speed to anything below the speed limit.

I have been in what I would consider heavy traffic doing 80+ mph at least twice. One was a southern California freeway many years ago, and the other was in Oklahoma on what would otherwise have been a great cycling route. Bumper to bumber at 80 mph has to be experienced at least once.

My real comment is that people will bypass paying tolls if they can find an alternate route where they can drive fast. The routes they would find will usually be the ones that are currently good cycling... low volume roads with decent width.

The Human Car

Generally speaking the area just outside of a congested area is truly one of the most frightening areas to ride during rush hour.

genec

Fast heavy traffic... the worst of all situations... and it does occur in spite of what some may think.

The last time I really faced a situation like that behind the wheel was in Phoenix, on a surface street that paralleled Freeway 10. Motorists were driving at about 55MPH bumper to bumper, white knuckle all the way... a clear invitation for disaster if there were the slightest impediment to their travel. Forget being a cyclist under such conditions.

slagjumper

Bush is cutting the funds to lubricate the privatization of roads and do his part to assure that we are stuck with a petroleum based economy for another 7 generations. Right now he is participating in a brutal gang bang of Texan taxpayer. With the help of his appointee Mary Peters, (Secretary of Transportation), and the Governer of Texas, Rick Perry, a few big banks and foriegn investors, Cintra and Macquarie they hope to force the Trans Texas Corridor down the citizens thoat. Apperently "no" does not mean "no" when GW is involved. WHile it looks like the good people of Texas are trying hard not to swallow. Most think that it is a done deal. If Bush plays his cards right, he'll get something even bigger than the President George Bush Turnpike!. It gets better, as the Austrailian toll road mega corp Macquarie, just bought forty local newspapers, primarily in Texas and Oklahoma! Look out Oklahoma your next.

Just look at all the frieght that moves out of texas, to every part of the country.



https://www.keeptexasmoving.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Texas_Corridor
https://transportation.house.gov/news...spx?NewsID=431

Once again, the Bush Administration targets Amtrak for elimination. The FY 2009 budget request proposes to zero-out operating funds for Amtrak, in effect shutting down the national passenger railroad system. The budget request provides $525 million for Amtrak capital grants and $375 million for “Efficiency Incentive Grants” and “Intercity Passenger Rail Grants".

randya

^^too bad the oil to operate vehicles on this huge mistake won't last 7 generations, and all the investors will be left holding a giant white elephant, which they will no doubt try to foist off on the American taxpayer.

targeting train service for elimination is another huge mistake, guaranteed, along with our mounting debt, to make America a second tier nation in the near future.

Schwinnhund

Not only the poor, but everyone should take this oportunity to lobby for alternative transportation. Ride bikes to work, shopping, etc.....Demand safe facilities. Use horses and mules if you can (although they are not really cheap. They need food, medical attention, and things like the Coggins Test done on a regular basis, but still much cheaper than owning and operating a Motor Vehicle). A bike is your best bet. Riding 10,20, 30 miles a day is easy and withing the means of almost anyone on a modern bike. If you try riding a horse more than 20-25 miles a day, you're gonna have a dead horse in short order.

The answer is already here. I know everyone won't , or can't ride. But enough could to make a difference in our National gas consumption, and wear-and-tear on the highways.

If just 20% of the total workforce rode a bike to work just 2 times a week, it would end our dependence on Foreign oil.

Instead of whining and griping about why it can't be done, let's work for ways that it can be done. This is America, where anything is possible!

Think about it!

Semper Fi!

JeffS

I'm with you right up to the unionized part. Screw the unions.

JeffS

That doesn't sound right. What are you basing this on?

randya

don't let your knee hit your chin when it jerks

oscaregg

We desperately need a US President who is not a bought-and-paid-for prostitute of the oil industry.
We need public policies that will force the cost of driving up, and force the cost of housing (even at the expense of property rights) down so that less wealthy people aren't forced into long car commutes. The selling price of real property absolutely must have fixed and finite price limits legislated--when you look at all of the ramifications of it, the free market in housing is a stone f&*^ing failure. Any policies that try to get us a "greener" transportation system but stilll allow a free market in housing will fail because of it. Maybe if climate change is real it will be, as the quote goes, "the visible foot that will crush the invisible hand."

slagjumper

I agree. If you wait until the hearings for the new privatized road, it is too late. We should get laws on the books saying that politicians cannot sell or long term lease state owned assets like roads and ports, without a vote. If the voters say we don’t want the tax, privatize then so be it, as long as there is full disclosure and transparency.

The problem is that the politicians are really into ignoring the will of the people where there is so much money and political value to be gained.

randya

thanks for being on top of this issue, Slagjumper. Hopefully Jan 20, 2009 will arrive before these toll road deals are finalized.

Schwinnhund

The 2006 report by the U.S. Department of Energy that stated that we (as of 2006) use 20 million barrels of oil daily (but the term 'use' is not defined. It could mean that it is simply sold to distributors, and not actually burned daily), 55% of which is foreign (again, the statistic is suspect, because a previous press release from two days before the study put it at only 20%, and the Bush Administration said 2 weeks earlier that it was as high as 65%. I think it depends on what idea or scheme they are trying to sell at the time). So lets average it out at 40% foreign oil. That's 8 million barrels.

A 2001 study by the National Transportation Department states that there are 7 trillion oil-dependent vehicle trips daily. 40% of these trips are under 2 miles, so that will round out to 3 trillion trips. When we screen out mass transit, airplanes, ships, boats, tractors, heavy equipment, commercial traffic, school buses, military and government trips, etc...we are left with a round figure of 3 billion miles a day driven by private vehicles back-and-forth to work, shopping, etc...in increrments of 2 miles or less. Now, we are only talking about 2 miles or less trips. Just about anyone can ride a bicycle, or walk 2 miles.

At an average gas mileage figure of 20 mpg, if these trips could be turned into bicycle or walking trips, it would save 125 million gallons of gasoline, or 6 million barrels. At an average cost of $2.75/gal., this would be saving consumers 343 MILLION dollars. If we could expand this to cover trips of up to 5 miles, that would cover the other 2 million barrels of foreign oil, easily.

Even if it did not completely end our dependence, it would take a huge bite out of it. There is no way that bicycling could make the problem worse, and every indication that if would make it infinintly better, and the solution is already here. There is no need for development, new energy sources (which in reality is just looking for more sources of the same old energy source), or waiting for new technology. Bicycles are here and ready to use.

I am a Vietnam Veterean. I did 2 tours. Do you know the real reason we did not prevail in that little place with little or no technology of it's own? It is because we could not stop the thousands of little old men and women carrying supplies along the Ho Chi Minn Trail on old clunker, single-speed bicycles. Each carried around 100 pounds of supplies. They moved tons of stuff daily this way, and there was no way to stop it, or even slow it down. If you bombed it, they just went another route through the jungle. If you shut the road down, they just went around it. You can't beat anybody if you can't cut off thier supply lines. Bicycles beat us. The USSR had the same problem in Afghanistan.

I've been all over Europe. Denmark is a fairly modern country with a good bit of industrialization. They don't use anywhere near the oil that we do on a per capita basis. Why? Because they are set up to allow the use of bicycles as much as possible. And so are many other countries. I've seen it with my own eyes. And if they can do it, so can we. This is America, where anything is possible, if and when the people will unite for a common cause.

For a modest sum, the government could modify existing roads, and build new 'bike paths', creating a nation-wide system of roads for bicycle and pedestrian traffic. It would cost less than what we spend on foreign aid in a week. Charity should start at home!

Semper Fi!

stevesurf

wow, Barry, how do you come up with that at the "drop of a hat"...I need to learn more! At this rate, the individual will continue to lose money if they can't or will not make lifestyle changes. I'd like to photograph the bike parking facilities near you sometime...

crhilton

I'm sorry but that number just doesn't sound viable. If we cut our commute use of oil by 8% we'll no longer need foreign oil? Do we not use hardly any foreign oil?

The Human Car

I try to collect articles and such that contain "interesting" information like that on BaltimoreSpokes.org. The info I stated comes from this article https://www.baltimorespokes.org/artic...08020914211243

Anyone can create a login for the site and get a daily digest of articles posted (and you can customize which topics you are interested in.)

Baltimore is going through a very interesting stage right now on as it tries to implement its newly adopted bicycle master plan. I like the idea of putting bike parking upfront as an early action item as there is something really cool about seeing bikes parked at a rack rather then them littering the street signs. If you want a photographic bike tour of Baltimore just drop me a PM.

crhilton

https://www.liveearnplaylearn.com/Lin...bid=98&mid=434
Just the introductory bike network is impressive, but when you add in all of those extra bike lanes wow. I wish my city would build bike lanes outside of downtown. Maybe out here in Suburbia where the main roads are a nightmare to ride (40-45mph, 4 lanes, busy, no wide right lanes).

The Human Car

Not everything on the bike network is a bike lane, it also includes sharrows and signed routes (share the road.)

What city are you in? Federal law requires that Metropolitan Planning Organizations (MPO) also plan for a bike network. This is our regional plan: https://www.baltometro.org/BRTP2001/RegionalMap.pdf The gotcha is no one is obligated to fund and build the bike network but with a little public pressure on road projects that are part of the bike network things can be done.

crhilton

I live in Lincoln, NE. We have a bike network, but outside of downtown it's mostly just separated facilities. There are a few marked bike ways, but only bike lanes downtown. On the side of town I live on sometimes it's hard just to get from point A to point B without riding down a suburban style 4 lane road, or taking a bike path. So I generally take bike paths, which get irritating because of dog owners (the dogs are fine, I hold that they're much more intelligent than their owners).

boneshake

While I'm firmly in favor of spending on transit and other non-automobile modes, the problem is that the transit trust fund is funded almost completely through the gas tax. So the car people believe they're already giving away money to transit. To say the transit fund is being "raided" is true, according to the law, but not really when you consider the source of the funds in the first place. The car people think they are the ones whose fund is being raided already.

starkmojo

Oh yes the money my mother lives on, the part that makes so she isnt living with me is wasted.

And medicare, which is paying for her diabetes medications so she isnt dead... that is wasted too. I will just call and tell my mom to quit wasting my tax money by continuing to live, I mean its not lie she isnt contributing by volunteering at schools, helping her parents live productive lives and being a grandmother to my kid.

Are these systems perfect? No not by a long shot. Do they help people live happier, more productive lives? Yes, many working poor and lower middle class retirees count on these services to meet their needs when they can no longer work FT, and thus have no access to the employer based health insurance. Until such time as we join the civilized world and offer full medical coverage and retirement, they are a millino times better than nothing.

The Human Car

I believe about 80% of the transit trust fund comes from direct taxes on driver's and automobiles and less then 10% is spent on alt-transportation. So it is the non-drivers that are subsidizing auto travel not the other way around.