Brian Ratliff

This was originally a reply from the thread listed in post 47 above. I didn't realize the thread was a year old, so I repost it here:

Perhaps we can all start a movement where overtaking people say "stay" or "stick" like the guys on the track do. It is an order, rather than a description: "on your left" is a description of your imminent actions; "stay" or "stick" is an order to hold your line. People respond intuitively to orders. One has to decipher a description. This is why people tend to move left when you say "on your left". Their mind is interpreting this subconsciously as an order to action, and it hears "left". Fill in the blanks (which your mind also does subconsciously) and you arrive at an order to move left.

It's like the movement toward the flashing yellow arrow for unprotected left turns that is going on in Oregon now. Even for people who know what it means, the solid green dot does not intuitively mean "unprotected left turn"; it's a symbol describing what should be done, rather than a symbol ordering you to do something. There's not much learning to do to determine that a flashing yellow arrow is an order to "yield to traffic during the left turn".

Perhaps if the passer had called out "stay" before passing, our OP wouldn't have his panties up in such a tight wad.

Brian Ratliff

Don't you know? Cute gals have telepathic powers that rival anything the male portion of the population can produce. They use it to open doors and for getting out of speeding tickets.

All we get are chicken dances for kicks.

jfmckenna

Well I was raised there and can attest to the high strungedness of some individuals but actually it's a pretty nice place.

Brian Sorrell

I spent the first 23 years of my life there and I will not be returning. I think that the climate affects people's dispositions. It certainly affected mine.

IknowURider

Ok again, sir,

It was very dark, raining.

I have a mirror that I designed myself, it actually works better than the store bought ones. I check it very regularly.

Can you check your mirror while adjusting your toe-clip? reaching for your water bottle? If you say yes, I'll say wow you must be superhuman.

I just got home. I met a nice lady on a drop bar road bike who came up behind me at a stop light. She stopped about twenty yards back, giving me some breathing room.

She saw that I saw her, as I turned around, smiled and waved. She waved back.

I asked her; "Hey, let me ask your opinion on something, have you been riding long?"

"twelve years, I race too. sure go ahead, My name's Cathy. Wassup?"

" Do you have problems with other riders blasting by you too closely, and not giving you warning, and they startle you?"

"Oh yeah, I hate that too", she said, "they do that all the time around here"....


Here's another article from Britain. A simple toot on a whistle is a lot less violent and idiotic than yelling "I'm not slowing down"...

https://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/l...cle4304006.ece

IknowURider

Thank you sir, prayers of peace to you out there. Yes, It is entirely unneccesary. And as I have posted several times, it's actually printed in public service material by the state. Hello?

It's because many of these guys are immature anti-establishment brats with ID logos that have bombs and machine guns. LOL. And they act like their ridng skills are superior to everyone else's.

What if I were an 85 year old man, riding along? does anyone actually THINK?

Here's a great scenario.
Bike rider startles other rider
rider swerves out of control into the traffic lane
SUV swerves to avoid rider
SUV ends up upside down in the woods
Mother and two young girls are killed instantly .

I absolutely loved the long thread here about the idiot in Portland who was confronted by a motorist who was a long time safety advocate. The motorist tells the guy "hey you ran a red light!!""

So what does the biker do? He beats the guy up badly by slamming him with his bicycle. I hope this kid goes to jail for awhile. Now there's a guy with a chip on his shoulder, sheesh.

genec

I'll have to admit an interesting article... but yet again with reference to the startled being pedestrians, not cyclists.

randya

Now I've lost you completely...for all you know they could be a bunch of bankers, accountant, lawyers and engineers. Or maybe it's the same guy day after day, in a different kit.

IknowURider

No he passed me in the bike lane , practically brushing me. I don't have to "sell' you on this.

I don't care what you think about my bike handling skills, we do not ride together, or know each other, so t's a moot point.

I have been road cycling since 1974.

I have two taillights, blinkers, one on the back of my helmet, one on the frame. I also have a 6" reflective triangle, red reflectors, side reflectors, pedal reflectors. I have a halogen headlamp securely attached to my helmet, 200 foot range. I have a handlebar mount Cateye light.
I have a police/sports whistle, and an air horn.

You have no idea how wide this road was, you were not there, therefore, you cannot assess anything on the distance of passage. Nice try on the headphone thing, though.

Three feet actually would have been do-able for me with a quick toot on a horn or whistle as he approached.

I chat with people all the time around here, some buy bikes from me as a result. See my post about the nice woman I met today.

If you don't wanna chat with me and just pass, as maybe you're late for dinner, etc. hey that's cool, Bro'.
Go ahead and pass, just give me a friendly warning and go ahead, But don't blast past me within inches of my bars and blurt out some stupid BS with a sneer on your face.

I'm actually fine emotionally now, but when I wrote that, yeah I was pissed beause I was put into a potentially dangerous situation for what? Someone else's ego.

And I am learning a lot about the attitudes of other riders out there. Now I understand why motorists can get so hostile when I have done absolutely nothing wrong

If you are so sick of this thread, then go elsewhere. Why are you attacking me? I don't have to prove my competence as a rider to you. All of it would really boil down to what a court judge would rule if there had been a collision.

IknowURider

Uh, yes I did.

It Illustrates exactly the same point, that many cyclists don't bother to give a warning to anyone. They feel so put upon that they cop a "make me" attitude. I agree with the author's "If you want to ride faster, ride somewhere else".

If you collide with a pedestrian, you will be immediately held at fault in court. You can accuse them of being "clueless" too if you want. See what the judge says about that.



And we are not in the military. Actually, I ride every day so I don't burn gas and my brothers will come home a day sooner.

Wow you can "zone out" and still be aware of everything at some primordial subconcious level? You Da Man!! LOL.

Thank you for admitting the other rider's behavior could have had less violent intention. But the insult about being "clueless"? You can have that back.

IknowURider

It doesn't matter one bit what they do for work. meaningless.

randya

well I doubt very much that they are 'anti-establishment brats'. Wherever did you come up with that???

Allister

Yeah. He's such an inoffensive little fellow, it hardly seems fair. Then again...

Aren't you special.

No, only yours.

Never mind champ. Keep practicing, and one day you too will be able to hold your line, even when 'startled'.

IknowURider

Interesting . And thank you for contributing something constructive, so refreshing.

I am just sharing my opinion on the semantics and psychology of the word "stay", bear with me a bit.

IMO, most people don't race and may be somewhat confused by that command, initially. But you may be correct, maybe studies have shown that this word causes less "drift effect", so I'm cool with that.

(I definitely did not "drift left" , no time to, and again, no warning of "on your left" was given. And another thing, let's all be aware that sometimes the guy in front of us may be allegedly "swerving/drifting" to avoid that broken bottle, etc.

Sidenote: chances are that rider in front of you will not be looking in his mirror. Maybe he is navigating through six broken bottles, so this activity may last twenty excruciatingly long seconds... Do not immediately assume he is in trouble, and be all "Jim Dandy to the rescue"...

I think the word "stay" would have been just fine, shouted out from within earshot from behind. Sure. Okay.

Being a higher frequency, it may carry better than "on your left". I think people will drift left as they are looking left, as you noted.

I was always taught to pratice being able to make eye contact with a rider or driver behind me without changing my line.

But I gotta tell ya, the police whistle rocks. That Oriental girl I posted about previously heard me from an impressive distance, and it was on the same noisy road!!!

You just give a referee-quick "tweet-tweet", and people snap right up. Don't give a long blast on the thing. A lot of people in town smile and wave in appreciation, as this is kinda different, as is my custom designed rechargeable, inexpensive, but way powerful helmet lamp, which is lit even in daylight.

The cops have been using captain's whistles for ages, because it carries better, uses less energy than hollering, and since it sounds like a chickadee's happy call, it tends to not antagonize pedestrians, motorists, and bike riders.

In town here we have mountain bike cops BTW, pretty cool bunch they are. Always up for a friendly chat, and some give me old bike parts.

I-Like-To-Bike

Some people do not necessarily respond intuitively in a positive manner to orders barked at them by strangers, nor necessarily as anticipated by a self appointed "commander" of the road/path. Especially to a command that is usually given to pet dogs.

red_hook

The judge (should it come to that) would say if you were driving in a straight line in the dead center of the road then you were the one who created the dangerous situation. And the other rider may have contributed to the dangerous situation by squeezing past on the left while yelling at you. And why were the yelling at you (or at least using a passive-aggressive tone that didn't sit well with you? Possibly because you were in the dead center of the path.

I don't want to argue with you and I don't want to nitpick. I have only a vague idea of what happened. I'm guessing the guy may have been trying to fan you back because you were taking up too much lane for his(?) taste. And if that's the case, a little road rage on his part. Your reaction strikes me as road rage on your part. You don't need to agree and I wasn't there. Just taking a guess.

When you bring that anger out here then I and all of the rest of the posters are entitled to agree or disagree. Don't be surprised if you get a reaction. Just saying, here and on the road, things work better when the tempers stay in check.

chipcom 

I'm calling BS here. I'm putting my hip waders on, I have a few spare sets for anyone who left theirs over in the roadie forums.

Allister

Keep practicing, champ, it's not that hard. It should be even easier with a homemade mirror that's superior to store bought ones. If it is beyond you though, I recommend clipless pedals and a camelback. You might also benefit from some sort of proximity warning device, and possibly some training wheels. HTH

IknowURider

yes ok, sure, Mr "Devilmaycare Cycling fool"...

IknowURider

I use what works best for me, oh now we're all about comparing equipment.. I have clipless pedals on my other bike, what is your point?

I'm sure you'll also tell me in your superior tone that you can simlutaneously check your mirror while avoiding road hazards (ex, glass) at night.


BTW, I forgot to mention that while the other rider did have a rear light, he did not have a headlight.

IknowURider

I have clients who are doctors and nurses and move out because they can't stand it here. One moved to Phoenix, the other back to Quebec.

If you really want to read some violent stuff, read the Craigslist posts about the Sport bike crash on I-91 over the July 4 weekend. This is typical CT stuff. These bikes race through hartford every night on I-84, doing 180.

In downtown Hartford where I ride my bicycle, there are guys going up the sidewalk on two-stroke dirt bikes. Against traffic. And no cops anywhere. Oh yes, well, sometimes Jodi Rell has to call in the state troopers to control the gun violence in the summer. Big debate. I worked in NYC for a while, crazy, yes, but this is a war zone. I have another guy on one of my other threads who attests to this.

Then there's all the SUV road rage, but I won't go there ' cause I'll get attacked.

I plan on moving back to NY, never to return.

Enjoy the stories of carnage here: This is just one of the posts. Scroll away.

....Two very smart boys who told everyone how superior their riding skills and awareness levels were. Yes, I know, they were motorcycles, not bicycles, but it's the same stuff, just a bigger machine to play with.

https://hartford.craigslist.org/rnr/750496181.html

Brian Ratliff

Some people won't respond positively to any warning called out to them. My point is the subconscious response to a command is to follow the command (even if the person resents it a moment later) verses a description of an action which the brain has to take time to decipher. And these warnings need not be "barked", but should probably be called out respectfully as a warning after the passer has slowed to mostly match speed. The passer still has the responsibility to pass safely; I'm just saying that a command called out as a warning is likely more effective than a description called out as way of a warning. Nobody in their right mind in any situation (car, ped, bike) passes a slower person on their right. What's the purpose of saying "on your left" then? Does anyone ever say "on your right"?

The response is to merely hold their line to aid the passer. Same as saying "on your left", except more effective. Myself currently, I usually just say "pardon" before I pass if it's a path. If I'm on the road, I pass in the car lane and I don't say anything until I've pulled ahead of the person. Then I say "hi" or "good morning/afternoon".

People shouldn't take offense... that is unless they resent the fact that someone is passing them. If so, better train and start racing instead of responding to a simple warning in a passive aggressive manner. A bicyclist passing another bicyclist is a cooperative venture. The passee must stay moving in a straight line. The passer must pass cleanly and safely. If I am passing someone and venture a word of warning and that person is somehow offended, this is their problem, not mine.

Pedaleur

Wait. Was it raining or just foggy? Your story keeps changing.

But the weather conditions are irrelevant. And here's why: I have no idea what really happened. I have no idea how close this person passed. I have no idea if he tried to startle you or not. All I know is that you ranted about it to a bunch of anonymous internet geeks, WHICH WILL CHANGE NOTHING ABOUT CT ROADIES. Even if you complained to CT roadies, it STILL probably wouldn't do much. Which is why my original advice, though delivered sardonically, is the only good advice that's been given to you: if you don't want to be surprised (which, from your OP seems to happen a lot) LEARN TO USE YOUR MIRROR!

I don't use a mirror. Or toe-clips. But reaching for a water bottle takes, what, half a second? Even if you check every five seconds (as mentioned in the OP), at a 10km/h speed differential, that's 15-20m behind you. If you can't see someone 15-20m behind, you need to LEARN TO USE YOUR MIRROR!

Does _she_ use a mirror?

Pedaleur

The simplest and most effective thing to do (aside from dinging a bell) when approaching from behind is to say "Bike back." The people who know what that means will hold their line. The people who don't will treat it as a bell: some will hold their line (or move right), others will look over their shoulder and swerve all over the place, but the latter would do that _regardless_ of how you announced yourself.

This comes from much experience and a little trial and error, and cannot be disputed. <= insert arrogant smiley thingy here.

"Stay" would just make people look around for a dog.

jfmckenna

Hartford is nothing compared to Bridgeport and even New Haven too. I never liked the cities much but I lived in a sleepy western Connecticut town and the people were nice and the bike riding was fantastic. In fact I never had a run in/confrontation with a car until I moved down south. Suthern hospitality my *****