tallard

Every action in life is a political statement, there is no such thing as silence. When I don't wear a helmet I POSIT that cycling is a safe, daily activity. When you wear a helmet, you POSIT that cycling is a dangerous activity putting your life at stake at every moment.

When your passive ways becomes a fad, governments take notice and your ACTIONS imprint your ideologies on the fearful sheeple masses. Your choice of a recumbent with helmet POSITS that your crashing is inevitable but at least you're protecting your head. I mostly drive in heavy traffic and want to see and be seen, so I would not ride a recumbent in heavy traffic because I CHOOSE to reduce the risk of a crash, over it's INVEVITABILITY. To accomplish this I often ride in full upright position, yes without my hands, I have amazing cheek muscles (ex figure skater).

tallard

Thanks, I didn't know it had a name

tallard

Funny that, it's of course just my anecdotal perception, but where I'm living, the helmet wearers are the 20-30 somethings, not youth, not the folks who've been riding for over 30 years (well a couple of 40-50s but not many). Typically, I feel that helmet wearers just happen to be the ones who were raised during the rising of the helmeteers. Socially speaking, helmeteering is more common in obedient populations than in rebellious populations (ig Quebec for Canada, FL for USA)

Maybe someone can provide demographics of helmet popularity, my Google search was not productive.

capejohn

Make that three.

And I would never ever ride a recumbent and make myself a prime candidate for the next issue of the Darwin Awards. There are plenty of those riders improving the gene pool as it is.

tallard

+1g

oldpedalpusher

I also prefer physical reality over intellectual theories...

...which is why I'm a Christian and have never worn a bicycle helmet in 50+ years of riding.


Greg

rando

Pascal's Wager= intellectual/spiritual dishonesty! so you don't think that when you die god doesn't know that you're only believing in him to hedge your bets? lol, I don't think that really counts as belief.... I started out wearing a helmet, but after a couple of years I determined that I just didn't need to wear it on my commute. it just was not that dangerous. I felt that the helmet gave me a false sense of secuirity also. another interesting observation: when I first started riding without one, I almost felt panicked at not having one on, like something bad was going to happen to me. I'm not sure if this was from reading all the stories about people dying without helmets or what.... but Somebody or something sure put the fear of god into me about wearing helmets. But I keep remembering that I cycled all during my childhood and adolescence helmetless with nary a scratch...

tallard

This study https://www.daclarke.org/AltTrans/FloridaMHL.html shows that such results, as with the bicycle debate, must be viewed critically. As with cycling studies, general ridership levels, demographics, and previous injury trends are most important considerations.

So no, not ALL studies state the same thing. I did a fair bit of research 3 years ago and don't have time to do it all again, but if you look deeper, you will also find valid criticism.

closetbiker

that would be the Bell marketing campaign (via funding of "public interest" safety groups)

John C. Ratliff

Nothing is trivial when it comes to researching articles which I have read over 10 years ago, some of them over 20 years ago. My sons have gone from our weekend gathering, so I will be building on this post for a while. Wait for a few hours before trying to read it, as I will be adding to it as I go. I have issues of Professional Safety Magazine going back many years, but they don't have a good index. Yes, I can get them through ASSE too, but their system is not the greatest for accessing them. Because of that, I will use a different article on Behavioral Safety, as most of them approach the information in the same manner.

I have also completed the calculations for the diagrams I want to present, but will wait just a bit longer for that project (my artistry leaves something to be desired).

The article comes from the February 1998 issue of Professional Safety Magazine (Volume 43, Number 2, February 1998, page 23). It is titled "Back to the Future: The Importance of Learning the ABCs of Behavioral Safety," by Stephen H. Reynolds.

As you can see, there is an entire body of knowledge that you are not aware of, which is in the refereneces that I have provided (including the books). I would encourage you to get those (and anyone else interested in this field) to improve how you approach the aspect of trying to change behavior by use of the consequences of that behavior. In July of 1988, I produced a program for one of the firms we insured titled "Supervising for Safety." As part of that program, I used the following slides (this is a small part of the entire program--two of those slides, printed at home off my Mac SE computer).

Concerning the "spoon-fed" comment--there are two concerns I have. One is that you and others here are intellectually lazy in really trying to find out things. The other is about copyright laws and protections. I am going just about as far as I can in not violating copyright laws here, by sourcing the information and by asking you to pick up the articles and/or books. I would highly encourage you to buy the applicable articles, and read the entire discussions. I am only providing little snippets of these, to stimulate your curiosity if that is possible. But you need to honestly try to get some of these resources for yourself. Maybe my "wackiness" is actually the result of a lot more experience than some others in the field of safety, from about thirty years of study. What may be "counter-intuitive" to some is accepted knowledge by others who have studied a field of knowledge in-depth. B.F. Skinner dates back a long ways.


John

larue

As long as I live I will never be able to grasp the backlash against helmets. If people simply don't want to wear them because of the way they look then I can understand that as stupid as it may be but there is no logical reason people should doubt how helpful helmets can be. I have been seriously riding since, I think, 2003 and anyone that knows me knows I am adamant about helmet usage. But one day at the end of November in 2008 I opted to leave my helmet behind so I could wear this really warm hat out as it was pretty freezing out as I remember it. It's kind of hard to remember that night but I do remember that it was very cold. Something went wrong on my way home that night, no one knows for sure but from the details that I've been able to gather about how I was found and my injuries I am fairly certain I was hit by another car. Yes ANOTHER car, that makes three. I spent a little over a week in the hospital in which I have no memory of at all. I hardly even remember being released or much of the following week at home. I'm fairly stubborn and went back to work immediately, or at least that's what I'm told, but now I realize how silly that was. Anyways...it's pretty obvious that my injuries wouldn't have been as severe if I was wearing my helmet. Instead of cracking my helmet open my head was cracked open. I was bleeding to my brain and they had to remove half of my skull to suck the blood out. They actually told those who were in the waiting room that I was probably going to die! I fractured my skull as well as the area behind my ear and temple. Well here is a picture of me on the release date, it's after a week in the hospital bed so obviously the swelling has gone done and apparently I was a little more aware of my surroundings at that point.
I'll never intentionally leave without my helmet ever again. I have forgotten my helmet a few times and honestly when I'm taking my cruiser out for only a block or two away I often leave it behind but other than that I always have it on. Thankfully several, actually a lot, of people that I have daily or frequent contact with were moved by what happened to me and have started wearing helmets.

closetbiker

The problem with your post larue, is that people who wear bicycle helmets suffer these injuries as often as those who don't.

It's been thoroughly examined and recognized, so if you post a pic like this, others can post as many pics of helmeted cyclists who look the same or worse.

When you make an emotional plea, you're not relying on reason, you're relying on the opposite of reason.

closetbiker

do you not agree that behaving in a safe manner is more important than wearing a helmet and behaving in an unsafe manner?

meanwhile

Anyone who makes decisions on the basis of what is "obvious" is almost certain to be wrong.

In an accident like yours the best expert opinion is that a helmet would have either been ineffective or made the results worse:

- And *do* bother to check the editorial board of that site; it includes Europe's leading helmet test expert and helmet forensic witness.

Not only that, but I am unaware of ANY reputable source that disagrees with the low to zero usefulness of a helmet in the sort of accident you must have had - including the helmet makers.

Another thing you would know that helmets don't split "instead of" skulls - a helmet splits when the shell fails - which it will in any more than trivial impact - and this happens before the liner compresses. I.e. split helmets (probably most recovered from accident sites) are ones that failed to protect **at all**.

meanwhile

Hilarious! A recumbent is somehow safe because the rider can't get thrown over the handlebars...! What do you think will happen if a car hits your Stealth Tricycle at 40mph??? My bet is on "SPLOSH!"

To misquote Mr T: "I pity the street cleaners in your city, fool!"

John C. Ratliff

No, I do not agree. You need both; this is not an "either-or" situation. In accident prevention, we never say "you don't have to wear your PPE if you act in a safe manner." We require both.

John

larue

So then post some pics for me that show cyclists who had helmets on that have had the same injuries. All of the statistics I've read say exactly the opposite. So if there are so many helmeted cyclists that look the same or worse let's see them.

larue

Nothing in the article you quoted actually proves that a helmet would make a brain injury worse. Perhaps you could actually post some scientific data that shows how this would be possible. And I personally believe that the whole wearing a helmet things makes you feel safe so you'll likely get in an accident because so is complete bull****. It's a theory and the theory has never been proven. The large majority of bicycle accidents, especially those that result in death, are with non-helmeted cyclists. The doctors that worked on me stated that yes with my injuries and helmet would have helped tremendously and I would say that those brain doctors ARE reputable resources. My head wasn't hit by a car it hit the ground. It only takes a five foot drop to potentially damage your brain and a helmet would indeed protect that from happening. I did not go over the handlebars so the issue with increased rotational danger would not have been an issue. I know very well that helmets don't exactly split, it was semantics.

closetbiker

You need to educate yourself because you've dislpayed more than a little ignorance here.

closetbiker

I can probably pull up a few more quotes, but I think the point is made

closetbiker

you're really showing how much you know here, aren't you?

John C. Ratliff

You need to learn from others, Closetbiker. You call on others to come to your conclusions, even when all evidence points in an opposite direction.

John

John C. Ratliff

Go ahead--I have said in the past that I would rather have people biking without a helmet than not biking, but that is not the same as saying that they should either wear a helmet or bike safely. Crash prevention is better than crash mitigation; but both need to be discussed. Bicyclists should do both--work to prevent and mitigate the potential for crashes with a helmet. When I was a scuba instructor for NAUI (the National Association of Underwater Instructors), we had a way of evaluating these kinds of situations. You recommend to your students what you would recommend to your family or loved-one. I would never say to my child, "Ride safely and you don't need to wear a helmet." I would say that he needed to do both--that is how I raised both my boys. The same applies here for bicyclists. What you are saying is that you can control everything, and you simply cannot.

John

closetbiker

I guess I already did (I had a couple of moments before my plane was in - I'm at work -)

closetbiker

you're embarrassing yourself here John