Stopped by the law! ... Again!
08-13-04, 10:03 AM
#26
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[QUOTE=bluejack]
I know I was riding alertly (although not alertly enough to realize I was being tracked by a motorcycle policeman, apparently several blocks back because it took him a while to catch up to me after I turned off Jackson), but to a casual observer it might have seemed that I was being careless, even reckless.
QUOTE]
If he was several blocks back you can argue that he did not have the proper perspective to see whether or not you had actually entered the intersection before it turned green. I think it would be really hard from several blocks back to see if you had actually crossed the crosswalk on red or not.
I know I was riding alertly (although not alertly enough to realize I was being tracked by a motorcycle policeman, apparently several blocks back because it took him a while to catch up to me after I turned off Jackson), but to a casual observer it might have seemed that I was being careless, even reckless.
QUOTE]
If he was several blocks back you can argue that he did not have the proper perspective to see whether or not you had actually entered the intersection before it turned green. I think it would be really hard from several blocks back to see if you had actually crossed the crosswalk on red or not.
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08-13-04, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PriO
It's not like he went threw a RED light. It was green. If he was endangering anyone it was himself...pretty simple.
Originally Posted by PriO
That IS good, but too bad he didnt run a red light
Originally Posted by bluejack
Well, perhaps God is trying to communicate with me somehow, but I was stopped
AGAIN, for blowing a red light AGAIN. ...snipping...
AGAIN, for blowing a red light AGAIN. ...snipping...
08-13-04, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bluejack
Well, perhaps God is trying to communicate with me somehow, but I was stopped
AGAIN, for blowing a red light AGAIN. . . . Only these past couple of weeks have I ever had any trouble with the police. It must mean something.
AGAIN, for blowing a red light AGAIN. . . . Only these past couple of weeks have I ever had any trouble with the police. It must mean something.
08-13-04, 10:17 AM
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Well, if we're going to parse bluejack's first post, we should read the entire thing, particularly this part:
If the light was green when bluejack entered the intersection he is not, cannot, be guilty of running a red light. Maybe we should ask bluejack to state specifically:
Bluejack, was the light green when you entered the intersection?
I can hit every light just as it turns green. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Unfortunately,
this policeman determined that hitting a light just as it turns green consistutes
blowing a red.
this policeman determined that hitting a light just as it turns green consistutes
blowing a red.
Bluejack, was the light green when you entered the intersection?
08-13-04, 10:59 AM
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Call me a cynic and I really do not want to doubt him but with all the dealings I have had with the police in Seattle I have a funny feeling that he may have missed timed one of his lights and was probably in the intersection when the light changed to green. Just call it a hunch since this is not his first post questionoing police motives when running a red light
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08-13-04, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Stor Mand
Even simpler, if you read his initial sentence:
According to that (his own words above), he did blow through a red light. If you are going into an intersection before the light changes and then in changes to green, you are running (or jumping) the light.
According to that (his own words above), he did blow through a red light. If you are going into an intersection before the light changes and then in changes to green, you are running (or jumping) the light.
08-13-04, 12:19 PM
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He says he did blow the light in one sentence, insinuated that he jumped the light in another and then says he gets there us it is just changing (in which case, no fault). So which one was it?
08-13-04, 05:36 PM
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Why am I not surprised you had to include whats others were doing, and all the other people the police could have got. Take responsibility, he got you not the other person. As soon as you see a redlight you should begin slowing down, because natrually your going to have to stop... So if you show no intentions of stopping, or keep traveling at the same speed, it doesn't matter if you get lucky and it turns green as you go under it.. Let me ask you this, if it didn't turn green would you be able to stop? Most can't thats why your intentions are read as not stopping.
And laggards comment about never seeing a car stopped for running a red is stupid.. Just becauase you don't see it doesn't mean its not happening.. People are murded one after another, but how many murders have you witnessed? Cyclist always complain about wanting to be treated like a vehicle and respected, but then when something like this happens, you say what causes more of a danger a bike or car.. A bike is a vehicle on the road and you have to be responsible to follow laws, and don't complain when your caught disregarding them.
And laggards comment about never seeing a car stopped for running a red is stupid.. Just becauase you don't see it doesn't mean its not happening.. People are murded one after another, but how many murders have you witnessed? Cyclist always complain about wanting to be treated like a vehicle and respected, but then when something like this happens, you say what causes more of a danger a bike or car.. A bike is a vehicle on the road and you have to be responsible to follow laws, and don't complain when your caught disregarding them.
08-13-04, 07:14 PM
#34
Every lane is a bike lane
Originally Posted by bbarend
What is the general law for a motion light when you as a cyclist cannont trip it? Do you treat the intersection like a stop sign? Stop, look and then resume riding? I cannot find anything about this in my states bicycle laws.
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08-13-04, 07:27 PM
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A bicycle is a vehicle and as such must follow the same rules. You can be right and also dead right.
Been hit several times by vehicles, and each time they got the ticket. The law works both ways.
Ride defensively, not recklessly.
Been hit several times by vehicles, and each time they got the ticket. The law works both ways.
Ride defensively, not recklessly.
08-13-04, 08:19 PM
#36
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Did I actually blow a red light? I don't think so, but it would come down to a matter of feet -- and as someone did point out, the policeman was a couple of blocks behind me, so his perspective was probably not the best. When I am going down that hill, I am not actually watching my light, I am watching the amber of the intersection lights, and also the streets themselves, for pedestrians and red-light-running cars. Did amber flip to red before I crossed or during my crossing? I don't think I can say. It may be that according to the letter of the law I did "run a red." In any case, I'll pay the ticket. I have gone through enough red lights in my life (on a bicycle) that I am willing to pay the fine for past transgressions. I figure it will be good for my police karma.
When I said AGAIN I was referring to an incident a couple of weeks ago, when i did get caught (and warned, not ticketed) for blowing a red light (which was legitimately red). In that case it was 1:00 AM on mostly empty roads, the cross street was on yellow with no traffic in sight. I don't say I was riding legally in that case, but I would certainly argue I was riding safely. (Thread Here.)
The point of the post was to share the story, and mark my surprise at having my first two stops by policemen, ever, in my life, happen within weeks of each other. I really don't intend to sound like I am complaining -- the Seattle Police are generally good to me. They were far more helpful when I had a bike stolen than the Philadelphia police ever were. (ie, they listened sympathetically and promised to keep an eye out; philadelphia police would never even respond to the report of a stolen bicycle, and if you went into the station to report it for insurance purposes, they would make you feel like YOU were the criminal, for wasting precious police hours on trivia.)
When I said AGAIN I was referring to an incident a couple of weeks ago, when i did get caught (and warned, not ticketed) for blowing a red light (which was legitimately red). In that case it was 1:00 AM on mostly empty roads, the cross street was on yellow with no traffic in sight. I don't say I was riding legally in that case, but I would certainly argue I was riding safely. (Thread Here.)
The point of the post was to share the story, and mark my surprise at having my first two stops by policemen, ever, in my life, happen within weeks of each other. I really don't intend to sound like I am complaining -- the Seattle Police are generally good to me. They were far more helpful when I had a bike stolen than the Philadelphia police ever were. (ie, they listened sympathetically and promised to keep an eye out; philadelphia police would never even respond to the report of a stolen bicycle, and if you went into the station to report it for insurance purposes, they would make you feel like YOU were the criminal, for wasting precious police hours on trivia.)
08-13-04, 09:03 PM
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Well also when the cop ran your name in the computer he could have seen that you were warned two weeks earlier. Obviously haven't learned your lesson, so had to do something about it.
08-13-04, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bluejack
I can hit every light just as it turns green. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Unfortunately, this policeman determined that hitting a light just as it turns green consistutes blowing a red.
Originally Posted by bluejack
Only these past couple of weeks have I ever had any trouble with the police. It
must mean something.
must mean something.
Better be extra careful (unlike some of the motorists you see everyday) until it blows over. (We wouldn't want you killing a motorist, for Pete's sake.)
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08-13-04, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
I guess I'm not the only one who sometimes get his timing wrong.
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08-14-04, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Stor Mand
He says he did blow the light in one sentence, insinuated that he jumped the light in another and then says he gets there us it is just changing (in which case, no fault). So which one was it?
08-14-04, 01:02 AM
#42
Every lane is a bike lane
Originally Posted by jinx_removing
Hey jacka$$, he said he was stopped for running a red light not actually running one!
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08-14-04, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris L
The law in most jurisdictions is that it becomes a "faulty signal" or some similar wording. That being the case, normal give way rules apply (i.e. treat it light a stop sign as you said). However, you might want to make sure the law applies in your state before attempting to use it.
I do that anyways...if it's not responding, when I am in fact expected to obey it (and thus implies it is required to function for me), then the light is not up to legal requirements and is not a valid light, and therefore can be treated as a stop sign. Last time I got crap for it, I told the cop look...if the light doesnt work, then it's not working properly, and thus is not an active traffic control device, but is now a passive traffic control device....so I'm treating it as one. Usually they drop it and leave at that point...from my understanding filling out forms for a faulty light is an incredible pain in the rump.
08-14-04, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bluejack
FROM ORIGINAL POST ... crack down on cyclists ... judges are lenient on cyclists ... ticketed. $81 ... could have given me a ticket for each of the lights.
BlueJack, Sorry to hear that. I've said this many times and will repeat....
Seattle metro cyclists: You are an EASY target to the police and safer to stop than a crook. So let's be careful out there.
...steps off soap box
08-14-04, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jinx_removing
Hey jacka$$, he said he was stopped for running a red light not actually running one!
... grow up. So, you say he was "stopped for running a red light not actually running one!". Most here find that he did indeed run the light. Proceeding into an intersection before the light changes is running a red light.
Originally Posted by Chris L
Dude, knock the name-calling off.
08-14-04, 08:04 AM
#46
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I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. i will try to be more sensitive next time.
It really makes me angry when people blatantly ignore a post and assume that the poster is doing something wrong just to disagree with them. Why?? What is the point? Do you feel better about yourself?Maybe you are a city commuter and maybe you are not but it seems to me that you are not.
Here is my take on city commuting. When I ride to work in the morning I am just like anybody else on the road, I have a routine. What sets me apart from the average driver is that I have to be alert to all that is around me. Potholes pop up overnight in Boston. After time the route between my house and my work became a meditation. I am so used to doing it that I became aware of the timing of street lights and even up to where certain delivery trucks will be on my route and when. I know when it is safe to do things (not insinuating that I break the law) that I normally wouldn't do on an unfamiliar road. I think in bluejack's case he KNEW that he would be safe as went down that street just making each green light. There is a strecth on So. Huntington in Boston where I do a very similar thing. I can see in all directions and I know that nobody is going to blow that light. I think it was just bad luck on his part. It seems to me that cop was looking to bust you, bluejack.
Maybe there is more to this story that we dont know. Maybe soccer mom with cellphone called you in because she thought you were "reckless" becuase you were riding on the street. In any case I am sorry to hear that you are out $81. I understand your situation and I feel your actions did not warrant a ticket.
It really makes me angry when people blatantly ignore a post and assume that the poster is doing something wrong just to disagree with them. Why?? What is the point? Do you feel better about yourself?Maybe you are a city commuter and maybe you are not but it seems to me that you are not.
Here is my take on city commuting. When I ride to work in the morning I am just like anybody else on the road, I have a routine. What sets me apart from the average driver is that I have to be alert to all that is around me. Potholes pop up overnight in Boston. After time the route between my house and my work became a meditation. I am so used to doing it that I became aware of the timing of street lights and even up to where certain delivery trucks will be on my route and when. I know when it is safe to do things (not insinuating that I break the law) that I normally wouldn't do on an unfamiliar road. I think in bluejack's case he KNEW that he would be safe as went down that street just making each green light. There is a strecth on So. Huntington in Boston where I do a very similar thing. I can see in all directions and I know that nobody is going to blow that light. I think it was just bad luck on his part. It seems to me that cop was looking to bust you, bluejack.
Maybe there is more to this story that we dont know. Maybe soccer mom with cellphone called you in because she thought you were "reckless" becuase you were riding on the street. In any case I am sorry to hear that you are out $81. I understand your situation and I feel your actions did not warrant a ticket.
08-14-04, 08:53 AM
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It the same that goes for yellows... If a light turn yellow and you speed up instead of slowing down you could be stopped, though it doesn't happen often...
08-14-04, 09:17 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by vrkelley
BlueJack, Sorry to hear that. I've said this many times and will repeat....
Seattle metro cyclists: You are an EASY target to the police and safer to stop than a crook. So let's be careful out there.
...steps off soap box
Seattle metro cyclists: You are an EASY target to the police and safer to stop than a crook. So let's be careful out there.
...steps off soap box
You know I must be commuting in a different Seattle. I find the police here very tollerant of commuting cyclists and in the 16 years I have been commuting (year round) in Seattle and now Everett and Snohomish county I have never had ANY grief from the police. Of course I do obey the law when I am on the road and try not to give an "attitude " to the police.
What I do see while I am in Seattle now is more bikes that ignore the laws and ride in very unsafe and illegal manners, much more than in the past. It is amazing as I wait for my bus at Howell and 8th just how many bikes weave in and out of traffic, split lanes to get in front of traffic, run red lights, and riding up the wrong side of the street. All of these are not only illegal, but unsafe and does give us legal and safe riders a bad name.
My judgements I have made by the original poster here is mainly by the attitude he seems to have about the police here, more than anything else. Attitude has a lot to do with how you are going to be treated and he does use the term blow through the light as well as has another thread dedicated to a police officer who was giving him a ticket when he deseved one. He thought the cop had better things to do with his time then give him a ticket. The funny thing was the cops was doing what we as taxpayers pay him to do, HIS JOB!
More interesting than all that, however, was my ride home. After I rode casually through a dead-empty intersection at 1:00 am, and was promptly surrounded by police cars, (Well, 1 car, but he was all over me) it went something like this:
P.O. Why did you just blow through that red light?
Me Well, uh, the crosslight was yellow, and there weren't any cars in either direction.
P.O. You realize that bicycles are subject to--
Me Yeah, yeah, but you asked why I went through.
P.O. So it would be all right if I just drove through a red light if I felt like it?
Me No sir. You're driving a car.
P.O. Do you have some identification, please?
Me Sorta. I hand him my drivers permit which expired about four years ago after I failed the drivers test (driving, not written -- the written was a cinch) for the second time.
While he is in his police car, running my numbers or whatever he does, I bust out laughing with the absurdity of the situation. He's a young cop, probably his first night in a car. I'm about the safest guy on the roads he could possibly stop. If it had been Philadelphia I wouldn't have dared to stop, and could easily have pulled hard up through those vehicle barriers, into the Seattle U. Campus and disappeared. But I have been so lulled by Seattle's law-abiding sensibilities that just stand here laughing.
P.O. Mr. Jackson. Do you know what a track stand is?
Me Yes sir, but this is not a fixed gear bicycle. You can't do a proper track stand with a free wheel.
P.O. (sighing) Well, that's what brakes are for, Mr. Jackson. Do you know what I'm saying?
Me Yes sir. I can go slow, sir.
P.O. -- hands my tattered, expired permit back to me -- alright then.
The police man proceeds to drive along side me for about eight blocks, during which I have to stop at three red lights where the only (potentially) moving vehicles within about eight miles are myself and the police car (and at which I execute near-perfect track stands, despite my lack of a fixed gear). Finally he turns aside, heads back to town. I blow every subsequent red light on the ride home, with my hands in the air, cheering my victory over the law as though I were Lance Armstrong.
P.O. Why did you just blow through that red light?
Me Well, uh, the crosslight was yellow, and there weren't any cars in either direction.
P.O. You realize that bicycles are subject to--
Me Yeah, yeah, but you asked why I went through.
P.O. So it would be all right if I just drove through a red light if I felt like it?
Me No sir. You're driving a car.
P.O. Do you have some identification, please?
Me Sorta. I hand him my drivers permit which expired about four years ago after I failed the drivers test (driving, not written -- the written was a cinch) for the second time.
While he is in his police car, running my numbers or whatever he does, I bust out laughing with the absurdity of the situation. He's a young cop, probably his first night in a car. I'm about the safest guy on the roads he could possibly stop. If it had been Philadelphia I wouldn't have dared to stop, and could easily have pulled hard up through those vehicle barriers, into the Seattle U. Campus and disappeared. But I have been so lulled by Seattle's law-abiding sensibilities that just stand here laughing.
P.O. Mr. Jackson. Do you know what a track stand is?
Me Yes sir, but this is not a fixed gear bicycle. You can't do a proper track stand with a free wheel.
P.O. (sighing) Well, that's what brakes are for, Mr. Jackson. Do you know what I'm saying?
Me Yes sir. I can go slow, sir.
P.O. -- hands my tattered, expired permit back to me -- alright then.
The police man proceeds to drive along side me for about eight blocks, during which I have to stop at three red lights where the only (potentially) moving vehicles within about eight miles are myself and the police car (and at which I execute near-perfect track stands, despite my lack of a fixed gear). Finally he turns aside, heads back to town. I blow every subsequent red light on the ride home, with my hands in the air, cheering my victory over the law as though I were Lance Armstrong.
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08-14-04, 09:50 AM
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I doubt you two are in different seattles. You know theres many different cops, their not all the same.. SOme will be in bad moods, some needs to get their stats up or whatever.. Just because you've always been on the good side of the police doesn't mean they always are good with commuters.
08-14-04, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jinx_removing
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. i will try to be more sensitive next time.
... snipping ...
... snipping ...
So, all of us here that think he was wrong, in your opinion, must be jacka$$es. As long as only your opinion counts.