Would rising gasoline prices inspire more bicycle use?
04-25-11, 09:50 PM
#351
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I'm not saying that riding in the rain and cold is not possible. I've done it for years. And it IS a hassle no matter how good your gear is. Yes, you can keep dry but to do so you've got to be wrapped in gear from head to toe -- it's a hassle putting this stuff on and taking it off and then having to deal with hanging up a pile of wet gear to dry. It's a huge hassle if you have to do it several times a day.
Another negative about bad weather riding is that it's hard on your bike. Road grit and grime gets all over everything so the bike requires more maintenance and after a harsh winter of riding it will begin to look like crap as metal parts start rusting. I've got disk brakes on my bike and I go through brake pads at least twice as fast through the winter months. Chain wear is pretty brutal too with all that grit grinding away where chain meets cog.
But probably the single biggest reason for not riding in the rain is that you are definitely at higher risk on the roads to have a collision as visibility for drivers and cyclists alike, is reduced dramatically.
So what's this got to do with high gas prices inspiring more bicycle use? High fuel prices do contribute to a few more cyclists on the road. But there are many, many other factors that also need to be overcome - weather just being one of them.
Fuel prices alone are not going to encourage the majority of people to ride bikes more. My guess is that well-designed cycling facilities will make a bigger impact towards encouraging more cycling than high fuel prices.
Unless someone knows of a way to control the weather, I'm not sure what can be done to encourage more cycling in the winter months.
Another negative about bad weather riding is that it's hard on your bike. Road grit and grime gets all over everything so the bike requires more maintenance and after a harsh winter of riding it will begin to look like crap as metal parts start rusting. I've got disk brakes on my bike and I go through brake pads at least twice as fast through the winter months. Chain wear is pretty brutal too with all that grit grinding away where chain meets cog.
But probably the single biggest reason for not riding in the rain is that you are definitely at higher risk on the roads to have a collision as visibility for drivers and cyclists alike, is reduced dramatically.
So what's this got to do with high gas prices inspiring more bicycle use? High fuel prices do contribute to a few more cyclists on the road. But there are many, many other factors that also need to be overcome - weather just being one of them.
Fuel prices alone are not going to encourage the majority of people to ride bikes more. My guess is that well-designed cycling facilities will make a bigger impact towards encouraging more cycling than high fuel prices.
Unless someone knows of a way to control the weather, I'm not sure what can be done to encourage more cycling in the winter months.
So, I am going to end this with you about the subject and keep it simple. I enjoy those rides and will always ride in those conditions and enjoy it. I am not trying to convince NO ONE to ride in rain,snow, or the cold simply because it is hard enough trying to convince them a bike is a better choice in nice weather. Have at it, the rest is yours and I have nothing else to say about it. Hope you got MY point.
04-25-11, 09:52 PM
#352
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as the price of gas goes higher, does the weather threshold increase? seems to be the weather related issue here.
04-25-11, 09:57 PM
#353
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The point of course, is that most people (I'm pretty confident saying most people) don't like to ride bikes in cold, wet weather. I live in Vancouver where it's cold and wet for about 5 months of the year -- it sucks riding in the rain. It's worse when it's raining and cold.
It's going to take a lot more than high gas prices to convince someone who cycles a fair bit in good weather to get out and ride in lousy weather regardless of the price of gas.
I'd say it's a monumental task to get the average person who cycles a bit or doesn't cycle at all to ride a bike in crappy weather.
High gas prices in warmer climes might be convince many to cycle more but I doubt it will work in places with cooler, damp weather.
It's going to take a lot more than high gas prices to convince someone who cycles a fair bit in good weather to get out and ride in lousy weather regardless of the price of gas.
I'd say it's a monumental task to get the average person who cycles a bit or doesn't cycle at all to ride a bike in crappy weather.
High gas prices in warmer climes might be convince many to cycle more but I doubt it will work in places with cooler, damp weather.
And ironically I'd rather ride in cold weather vs. in rainy weather. Cold and rainy weather would "ruin" my day. One or the other is easily tolerated.
04-25-11, 10:46 PM
#354
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First, you're taking this way out of context. I understand most people who don't ride that often aren't going to commute or go for a fun afternoon ride in the rain/cold/snow. I understand that and to reiterate what I was saying in the beginning... I still don't care what others do. Which is the whole point of my post if you were to read! I enjoy (keyword is "I") taking a ride in the rain sometimes and just because I take a ride in the rain/cold/snow doesn't mean I have to have full gear on. Will I purchase full gear to wear in certain weather, of course I will. Why wouldn't I at some point if I plan on commuting in all weather?
So, I am going to end this with you about the subject and keep it simple. I enjoy those rides and will always ride in those conditions and enjoy it. I am not trying to convince NO ONE to ride in rain,snow, or the cold simply because it is hard enough trying to convince them a bike is a better choice in nice weather. Have at it, the rest is yours and I have nothing else to say about it. Hope you got MY point.
04-25-11, 11:08 PM
#355
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04-26-11, 03:34 AM
#356
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The point of course, is that most people (I'm pretty confident saying most people) don't like to ride bikes in cold, wet weather. I live in Vancouver where it's cold and wet for about 5 months of the year -- it sucks riding in the rain. It's worse when it's raining and cold.
It's going to take a lot more than high gas prices to convince someone who cycles a fair bit in good weather to get out and ride in lousy weather regardless of the price of gas.
I'd say it's a monumental task to get the average person who cycles a bit or doesn't cycle at all to ride a bike in crappy weather.
High gas prices in warmer climes might be convince many to cycle more but I doubt it will work in places with cooler, damp weather.
It's going to take a lot more than high gas prices to convince someone who cycles a fair bit in good weather to get out and ride in lousy weather regardless of the price of gas.
I'd say it's a monumental task to get the average person who cycles a bit or doesn't cycle at all to ride a bike in crappy weather.
High gas prices in warmer climes might be convince many to cycle more but I doubt it will work in places with cooler, damp weather.
In terms of environmental impact and impact on oil consumption, if every American who was able to ride a bike did so for sub 5 mile trips (mostly short-distance commuting) and trips that don't require major hauling, that alone would be huge and pretty reasonable (I kid you not, I have a neighbor who drives the car 2 lots over to the grocery store she works at, on the same block). And in terms of bike safety, it would also be an enormous boon. As I said earlier, rising gas prices coupled with other influences ("green" culture, focus on health, etc) could have some effect on use. How much is up for debate.
04-26-11, 04:11 AM
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I think rising gasoline prices will most definitely lead to increased cycling for transport and other utility. The thing is that the US is still nowhere near having expensive gas, not even in the same as league as expensive gas. In Australia we're > US$6/Gal. and there is no sign of anyone even considering cycling, in fact cyclists are as much an out group, if not more so, than anywhere in the US.... and that was still the case a few years ago when we hit US$8/Gal. for a while.
I hope we might start seeing some attitude changes maybe at perhaps > US$15/Gal or even US$20/Gal, and even at those prices I wouldn't be one bit surprised if people would rather take a 2nd job just to pay for gas. Seriously, I wouldn't even be surprised if people would rather go hungry or commit crime rather than give up driving. You think I'm off base here? well, as gas went up here a few years ago what increases proportionally was gas theft and I remember reading about how people cut back on healthy food opting for cheaper (per calorie) junk food to cover their gas while the number of cyclists remained proportionally the same.
You guys have incredibly cheap gas, at $4/gal even at $5/gal it's being practically given away.
I hope we might start seeing some attitude changes maybe at perhaps > US$15/Gal or even US$20/Gal, and even at those prices I wouldn't be one bit surprised if people would rather take a 2nd job just to pay for gas. Seriously, I wouldn't even be surprised if people would rather go hungry or commit crime rather than give up driving. You think I'm off base here? well, as gas went up here a few years ago what increases proportionally was gas theft and I remember reading about how people cut back on healthy food opting for cheaper (per calorie) junk food to cover their gas while the number of cyclists remained proportionally the same.
You guys have incredibly cheap gas, at $4/gal even at $5/gal it's being practically given away.
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04-26-11, 04:21 AM
#358
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some of what determines bicycle use is how amenable the road network is for bicycling.
Car ownership in Denmark is as high as US car ownership, but bicycle ridership is much, much higher - a result of transportation infrastructure that supports bicycling as a mode of daily transport.
why is ridership low in the USA despite the average trip outside the home being quite short in distance?
America's business and transportation interests have weighted the public's transportation choices inexorably on the automobile.
Car ownership in Denmark is as high as US car ownership, but bicycle ridership is much, much higher - a result of transportation infrastructure that supports bicycling as a mode of daily transport.
why is ridership low in the USA despite the average trip outside the home being quite short in distance?
America's business and transportation interests have weighted the public's transportation choices inexorably on the automobile.
04-26-11, 06:33 AM
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Anyway, the fact is, rain is actually quite rare, even in places noted for rain. I commuted ten miles every weekday for a year and a half in England and I must have been rained on maybe 20 times. Same in Massachusetts. I cycled 10,000 miles throughout Europe and to be honest, I can only remember a couple of times when it rained throughout a day's trip. And regarding wear and tear on the bike, I never kept my bikes clean and none of them had any wear issues. I think people tend to think bikes are these delicate instruments when in fact they're extremely rugged and over-engineered in almost every department.
I'd say cold would be a much bigger factor preventing people from biking. Rain is an annoyance at best, whereas cold can be painful if you don't have the right equipment. But still, if you own a coat and a good pair of gloves, cold is not an issue. Anyway, it's not as if the air conditioned automobile is going to be an option for many people far into the future - low gasoline prices have created a false utopia of insanely cheap energy, but that's about to change. Future generations will have to pay realistic prices for energy, and that means a lot of people will be forced to choose lower-energy-consumption vehicles.
Anyway, there are always going to be folks who are scared of getting a bit damp. These folks are hardly the vast majority.
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04-26-11, 07:14 AM
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Perhaps for some. But it's a major detriment for many average people who ride bikes. Don't believe me? Take a look next time it rains and see if the same amount of cyclists are on the road as when it's sunny.
This has to be one of the most asinine statements that I've seen on these forums - and there's a lot of competition in this category. Do you even read what you write before posting? I can see this discussion really taking a strange turn here. How the heck can rain be rare in places that are noted for rain?!? You obviously live on a different planet than the rest of us. You certainly don't live in Vancouver, that's for sure because rain is far from rare here. I suspect it's far from rare in many other places too.
I'd wager that they're a much larger majority than you can imagine. Really.
Anyway, the fact is, rain is actually quite rare, even in places noted for rain.
Anyway, there are always going to be folks who are scared of getting a bit damp. These folks are hardly the vast majority.
04-26-11, 07:20 AM
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why is ridership low in the USA despite the average trip outside the home being quite short in distance?
America's business and transportation interests have weighted the public's transportation choices inexorably on the automobile.
04-26-11, 07:49 AM
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As for the 'asinine' statement I made about rain, have you calculated how much it rains on average per year in 'rainy' areas? I have. It's a small minority of the time. In no city in the US - even the rainiest, does it rain a majority of the time. Not even close. According to a 2007 study, Mobile, Alabama and New Orleans are the two rainiest US cities, with an average of 59 rainy days each per year - that's out of 365 days, in case you were wondering. Just to be clear, 59/365 is not a majority of the time.
Even when you count anything more than a single raindrop as a 'rain day', the numbers don't reach the 50% mark, with Buffalo New York getting the most - 166 days where rain was measured. That's 45%.
So maybe it's time to stop whining about the weather. The weather is usually just fine for cycling. And maybe it's time to reconsider who's being 'asinine' here. It's asinine not to know what the hell one is talking about - and clearly, you don't.
In future posts here, I'm not going to respond to people who can't disagree without making embarrassing attempts to be insulting. By the way, you might want to look up the word 'asinine' - it either doesn't mean what you think it means, or you are incapable of recognizing intelligence when you see it.
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04-26-11, 09:31 AM
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As for the 'asinine' statement I made about rain, have you calculated how much it rains on average per year in 'rainy' areas? I have. It's a small minority of the time.
In no city in the US - even the rainiest, does it rain a majority of the time.
So maybe it's time to stop whining about the weather. The weather is usually just fine for cycling.
And maybe it's time to reconsider who's being 'asinine' here.
By the way, you might want to look up the word 'asinine' - it either doesn't mean what you think it means, or you are incapable of recognizing intelligence when you see it.
04-26-11, 09:34 AM
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I don't live in a rainy area, but I can back up that I don't get rained on often. A few times a year, maybe a little more if I couldn't wait 15 minutes for the rain to settle down.
Rain really isn't a big deal. You wear a few pieces of rain gear, use fenders, and spend a little while drying off when you get to work.
Snow and ice is a big deal. Much more difficult to deal with than a little rain. And now I feel like I'm preaching.
Rain really isn't a big deal. You wear a few pieces of rain gear, use fenders, and spend a little while drying off when you get to work.
Snow and ice is a big deal. Much more difficult to deal with than a little rain. And now I feel like I'm preaching.
04-26-11, 09:35 AM
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In Vancouver it rains approximately 166 days per year. I'd say that's much more than rare. When it rains on a fifth to a quarter of the days in a year, it's not rare. Not even close. One or two days a year would be rare. Even four or five days would be rare. When it rains for two months of the days of the year (your number, not mine) it's hardly "rare".
That's how you end up not getting rained on on a rainy day: It's often not raining all the time.
04-26-11, 09:38 AM
#366
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some of what determines bicycle use is how amenable the road network is for bicycling.
Car ownership in Denmark is as high as US car ownership, but bicycle ridership is much, much higher - a result of transportation infrastructure that supports bicycling as a mode of daily transport.
why is ridership low in the USA despite the average trip outside the home being quite short in distance?
America's business and transportation interests have weighted the public's transportation choices inexorably on the automobile.
Car ownership in Denmark is as high as US car ownership, but bicycle ridership is much, much higher - a result of transportation infrastructure that supports bicycling as a mode of daily transport.
why is ridership low in the USA despite the average trip outside the home being quite short in distance?
America's business and transportation interests have weighted the public's transportation choices inexorably on the automobile.
America unlike [random enlightened Europeon] country is quite vast with much varied terrain and ecosystems (mountains, desert, tundra, swamp, praries. . ) so as a country, it really doesn't compare. You're better off comparing random country to a state or municipality of like size. For instance Netherlands has roughly the same land area as Vermont and New Hampshire combined. Let's start there first. I'd be interested to know.
04-26-11, 09:39 AM
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Anyway. I drive because I have to, I ride because I want to.
Full stop. End of story.
[/thread]
Full stop. End of story.
[/thread]
04-26-11, 09:43 AM
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In the past several days in Vancouver it's rained nearly all day every day. The forecast for the next ten days is rain for 8 of those days. From my experience of living here for most of my life, it rains here a lot. In fact (yes, it's a fact) during the months of November to March, it's not uncommon to get stretches of 20 days where it rains every day.
No, it doesn't usually rain solid for 24 hours a day, but sometimes it does. Like it has for most of the previous week here.
No offence intended, but you guys should learn about about what happens in the rest of the world before you tell others what you think happens.
No, it doesn't usually rain solid for 24 hours a day, but sometimes it does. Like it has for most of the previous week here.
No offence intended, but you guys should learn about about what happens in the rest of the world before you tell others what you think happens.
04-26-11, 09:51 AM
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04-26-11, 10:43 AM
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The key thing is if you're cycling to get to and from work you have to be at work at a certain time and you knock off work at a certain time.
If I work 9-5 and it takes me 30 minutes each way to cycle then if it rains between 8-9am and 5-6pm I get wet twice even if it's blazingly sunny for the rest of the day. If I'm cycling for leisure and it's raining I can decide to put on waterproofs, wait a while, or do something else instead.
04-26-11, 10:52 AM
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Define "short"?
America unlike [random enlightened Europeon] country is quite vast with much varied terrain and ecosystems (mountains, desert, tundra, swamp, praries. . ) so as a country, it really doesn't compare. You're better off comparing random country to a state or municipality of like size. For instance Netherlands has roughly the same land area as Vermont and New Hampshire combined. Let's start there first. I'd be interested to know.
America unlike [random enlightened Europeon] country is quite vast with much varied terrain and ecosystems (mountains, desert, tundra, swamp, praries. . ) so as a country, it really doesn't compare. You're better off comparing random country to a state or municipality of like size. For instance Netherlands has roughly the same land area as Vermont and New Hampshire combined. Let's start there first. I'd be interested to know.
Just because some people drive lots of miles, and others do it occasionally, doesn't mean we don't have lots and lots of short trips.
"Short" probably means under 5 miles or under 2 miles, depending on who you talk to.
04-26-11, 11:48 AM
#373
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So how does the ridership rate of Trenton compare? Or Eugene?
04-26-11, 12:11 PM
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I think rising gasoline prices will most definitely lead to increased cycling for transport and other utility. The thing is that the US is still nowhere near having expensive gas, not even in the same as league as expensive gas. In Australia we're > US$6/Gal. and there is no sign of anyone even considering cycling, in fact cyclists are as much an out group, if not more so, than anywhere in the US.... and that was still the case a few years ago when we hit US$8/Gal. for a while.
I hope we might start seeing some attitude changes maybe at perhaps > US$15/Gal or even US$20/Gal, and even at those prices I wouldn't be one bit surprised if people would rather take a 2nd job just to pay for gas.
I hope we might start seeing some attitude changes maybe at perhaps > US$15/Gal or even US$20/Gal, and even at those prices I wouldn't be one bit surprised if people would rather take a 2nd job just to pay for gas.
Seriously, I wouldn't even be surprised if people would rather go hungry or commit crime rather than give up driving. You think I'm off base here? well, as gas went up here a few years ago what increases proportionally was gas theft and I remember reading about how people cut back on healthy food opting for cheaper (per calorie) junk food to cover their gas while the number of cyclists remained proportionally the same.
Compared to a lot of areas around the world I'm sure that that is true.
04-26-11, 12:25 PM
#375
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Driving = mobility. Mobility = freedom. Cheap, abundant energy = mobility = freedom. There's a correlation between energy policy and social policy. For those that have the choice to not drive. great. Good for you. For those of us that have no choice, we're talking about people's lives here.