kenji666

Cowards hiding behind radio show microphones. Cowards hiding behind the steering wheel of a 3000 lb killing machine.

mac61

Call the radio station and speak to the manager or program director - better yet call their local companies that advertise on that show and tell them you will no longer buy their product/service if this continues. Companies hate bad publicity.

Kinst_VonSterga

That's a neat feature, ie. TrollHeim, for gang-pile sessions that get out of control.

McTrey

If I must spell it out for you, (and it appears I must) it means that try as I might, he just doesn't get my point and probably won't.

If cyclists and motorists don't respect each other, than these aggressive and and unfortunate incidents will continue to happen. Respect is after all a two way street.

Glad you could contribute constructively to the thread.

rob_g

There's a lot of good thoughts and replies in this thread. Thank you!

I came accross it when considering starting a thread on the exact same topic, motivated by the article published here in the St. Catharines Standard this past Saturday.

There's a lot of discussions going on here in the Niagara cycling communities, various people have contacted the station manager to complain, and received appeasing emails. He apparently is feeling the heat.

Niagara is a wonderful place for cycling, we are truly lucky to be able to go out, and in short time be riding in quiet, low traffic, scenic country roads. There's even a growing tourism industry geared for the travelling cycling tourist, offering winery tours, a 'bike train' from Toronto on the weekends with racks for bikes, B&Bs and guided tours, etc.

To put things into perpective, the idiocy in this radio show aired just a day or two after a local cyclist was hit from behind, dragged on the car's hood for about 30 meters and finally dropped into the roadside ditch. He was very lucky not to have been killed in this accident, the cowardly motorist did not stop at all to offer any assistance. [ accident happened May 23rd, newspaper article with details here; radio show segment aired apparently May 24th, in the morning. ]

This morning, May 30, the radio station had Louise Blais, a local cyclist and the main organizer of the 'Big Move Cancer Ride' come on the show and have a say. Apparently she was very eloquent and articulate; I did not listen to the show, but according to a trusted friend :

Contact information for the radio station's manager :

Bob Harris, <bharris@astral.com>
Vice President / General Manager
Astral St Catharines / Niagara
work: 905 684 1174 x 301
cell: 905 328 8342

There's the possibility of a complaint to the Federal broadcasting regulator, the C.R.T.C.; the process is explained in detail in the 'How to make a broadcasting complaint' page.

Digital_Cowboy

I have a good question, is the original radio show online anywhere? I would like to hear the original radio show. I have written to the station manager as I presume numerous others have. In his reply he claims to be a cyclist himself. If that is true I would like to know how he can justify that show, even if it was in just "in jest/tongue in cheek."

The sad thing is that even if it was just meant "in jest/tongue in cheek" we all know that sadly there are plenty of people out there who are looking for any reason to "justify" their hatred/actions towards others. And sadly radio shows like this just help to fan those flames.

billdsd

https://www.torontosun.com/2011/05/28...ders-the-gears

Every comment I made got deleted. Very few comments favorable to cycling were allowed and the few that were allowed were by people who didn't really know how to argue the pro-cyclist point of view. After two days, comments were closed.

gerald_g 

Radio station web site.

https://www.htzfm.com/index.aspx

advertisers on web site at least....

General Motors
Cineplex.com
Niagara Fence
Telus
Home Hardware
Joeys Seafood
Johnny Roco's Italian Grill

(I'm sure there is more.)

Also of note, the parent company Astral has this in their Social Responsibility section....

Grand défi Pierre Lavoie

Astral is dedicated to fighting physical inactivity among young people and raising funds for orphan disease research, which is why once again this year we partnered with the second annual Grand Défi Pierre Lavoie. The event's 1000-km Saguenay to Montreal cycling marathon was held from June 18 to 20, 2010. In addition to their association with the cycling tour, Astral television channels Super Écran, MusiMax, MusiquePlus, TÉLÉTOON, VRAK.TV and Ztélé as well as the stations of the NRJ radio network partnered with a major Quebec-wide school tour to promote physical activity among young people and raise awareness of the importance of adopting a healthy lifestyle from a young age.

sudo bike

I don't think anyone was saying that. As a matter of fact, if anything, if you look at A&S's track record, there is a long established record here of being very critical of a cyclists' actions (sometimes/often even when it's not warranted).

No one is really saying disrespectful cycling is OK. What we are saying is that there is a big difference between causing $$$ damage to a vehicle with disrespect, and putting lives at risk with disrespect. Cyclists on a 30lbs vehicle pose far less threat to motorists in a 1+ ton vehicle than the reverse. No risk? No, of course they can pose a risk - but I very much doubt you are going to find a high percentage of motorists falling victim to disrespectful cycling. But there are too many stories, too often of cyclists killed or injured due to motorist disrespect - and that's with a low percentage of cyclists in the US.

If you're driving a bigger, more dangerous vehicle, it's generally accepted that you have more responsibility to operate safely. Pedestrian > Cyclist > Driver > Bus Driver/Truck Driver, in terms of responsibility. We all have a responsibility to operate on the roads safely, but those of us who pose more risk to others have a greater responsibility than those who don't. This isn't a novel concept.

EDIT: Sort of a tangent, but in the same vein - I'd have no problem with dropping the California Class C weight limit to 1.75-2 tons and adding a new endorsement for vehicles over that limit, based on that very concept. Obviously the target being SUVs or trucks - they obviously have more potential to cause more damage, and so should be held to a higher standard of responsibility.

KD5NRH

As an example, here's a clearly accidental comment that just slipped out, but got the news anchor suspended for two weeks. https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,321527,00.html
Listening to the original show, it was obvious that he had no malicious intent, and most people wouldn't have even noticed the comment. Certainly no one would mistake it for inciting violence.

OTOH, here we have radio hosts clearly encouraging people to think up ways to harm cyclists, and egging on the behavior. As long as the station is supporting them, I can't imagine any responsible advertiser wanting to continue to buy advertising time on the station in any time slot.

rob_g

DC, thanks for taking the time to write to the station manager. I don't think there's a recording available online anywhere.

A member of one of the local Cycling clubs (Sylvia Wheeler, Past President, Niagara Freewheelers Bicycle Touring Club) wrote him an email, specifically requesting a copy - and the station manager denied. I have his email response, here is the relevant bit :

He could help his case by having provided a copy to the Club's executive, who would listen and judge the material first hand; but they only release recordings when mandated by the CRTC.

The remainder of his response is the same 'I am a cyclist too, blah, blah, blah' that other people are also receiving.

Still pondering the merits of preparing a CRTC complaint - upon re-reading the article, I am thinking that the Standard reporter might not have listened to the show either, but reported based on a letter, email or phone call from Sarah Philips :

Having a recording to listen to and judge first hand would also make a CRTC complaint much more focused and credible - the first line of attack from Astral would be that 'have you heard the show yourself?'

I am glad billdsd reported on his comments to 'The Sun' newspaper being deleted - the company who owns The Sun is the same that owns all 3 local newspapers in the Niagara region (St. Catharines Standard, The Welland Tribune, Niagara Falls Review) - QMI, or Quebecor Media, Inc. An openly right wing media group based in Quebec.

The paper's national news are so clearly slanted that reading any of it is painful. It's shocking they can get away with such biased garbage.

Commenting in the Sun's site is useless if any opposing view gets deleted, but can be useful if you denounce that via other media.

Digital_Cowboy

Rob,

You're welcome, I know that being down in Florida and not in the listening area that my writing might not make much of an impact but I hope that the GM is smart enough to realize that in today's world with The Internet that things like his radio show no longer stay local. And become of interest to people all around the world. It would be nice if there was a copy of it online so that we could all hear it. I wonder if anyone recorded it when it was broadcast?

His response to Sylvia is pretty much what his response was to me. Minus the comment about not releasing a copy of the show without a CRTC mandate. Do you know if Sylvia followed up on his reply to her? If so do you know if she got a reply? I know that I didn't.

It couldn't hurt to file a complaint with the CRTC, as we know even when used in jest words can be very powerful things. And I agree that it would go a long ways towards helping his case if he were to make the recording public. Which looked at one way being as it was broadcast isn't it already public? We had the publisher of a magazine several years ago who refused to provide proof of one of it's models unless ordered to do so by a judge. I would think that if one had the evidence that proved their point that they'd be more than willing to have it made public.

Has the stationed issued an apology yet for the radio show, or are they still maintaining that they did nothing wrong?

rob_g

DC, I don't know if anyone has a recording of the show as aired - it would be great if one could be found.

I sent an email to Peter Downs, the Standard's reporter who wrote the story asking for confirmation if he did listen to it or not. Sarah Phillips, who seems to be the originator of the contact with the newspaper which started the ball rolling did hear it; if Sarah was interested in participating in a group writing a complaint to the CRTC, it would make the case a lot stronger, as she would be reporting based on first hand facts.

All I have to base a complaint on is the newspaper article, and the station's manager is of course accusing the paper of exaggeration, distortion of facts, etc. Yet, he denies a copy of the recording, which could be the best way to prove his point.

I don't think Sylvia Wheeler followed up on the request for a copy of the recording. The Club's executive is debating how to react, if a response is needed or not, etc - they are very conservative and a bit unconfortable with the whole situation.

Some vocal club members are requesting an official Club reaction, myself included. A letter to the newspaper is being prepared by the Club's president, it does not mention the station or the broadcast specifically but is basically emphasizing a 'share the road' message. That's probably as far as the exec will go.

The Standard reporter would be interested in a follow up story, in case anyone did intend to file a CRTC complaint.

To be completely honest, I don't think much would result from a complaint - the CRTC complaints page states that such complaints should be sent directly to the broadcasters association itself, if the station is part of it (which it is). If we ignored that, and sent the complaint to the CRTC, they would forward it to the association.

And :

Dealing with an industry association, specially on a market so tightly controlled by oligopolies like the Communications sector in Canada, it's hard to expect any results - other than the Protest value of the complaint itself.

The association would likely dismiss it, and the complainants could then file with the CRTC, registering their dissatisfaction with the outcome. This would be kept on the station's file, and could be brought up at license renewal time.

The most damage to the station would likely come from independant reporting, and non-main stream media, like these forums, picking up the story and spreading it.

nelson249

Fair enough but when you consider the sheer disparity in speed and weight of metal I rather think the violence from those on two wheels is hardly comparable.

nelson249

Since when? Canadians like to think so and get rather annoyingly smug about it but the truth is that we suck too.

nelson249

Typical for the "Stunned"

wabbit

oh, there are plenty of ***** here, they just don't pack heat.

powerhouse

I remember a similar show that was broadcasted in the Washington D.C. area that also could have led to results that were very much alike. The subject matter started with the announcement a few of Washington D.C's busy avenues would have bicycle lanes in the middle section of the street. The remarks made over the air were about how upset some people were that the lanes would be painted there and that the middle of the street would be congested with bicyclists. Among many of the remarks that the host made over the air to the public at large about bicyclists being in the lanes, one of them was"...Run 'em down!" Complaints by bicyclists and others alike were made to the station, attempts to get financial support yanked from the show was tried. I don't know what finally happened. But to go on the radio and making suggestions to the public to endanger the lives of bicyclists is uncalled for.

P.S. In May of this year, I was in the Washington D.C. area and noticed that the bicycle lanes actually are in the middle section of the streets. However, There weren't any infuriated motorists because of this.

rob_g

I had found (and saved) a nice pic of those Washington bike lanes - had never seen a left turning bike lane yet!

aussie_grl14

Wow! Doesn't make me want to live in D.C. but I'm definitely impressed. The worst part about my commute is turning left...

I'm disappointed and amused by the number of comments on the article saying bikers should be licensed and insured "to help pay for the road they ride on". Seems to me like most people don't know where their road funding comes from. Not to mention most bike riders also (gasp!) drive a car!

sathor

I would love to see them actually enforce the bike laws here, almost all of them have $10 fines, and a chance at being sentenced to special bike classes.

Digital_Cowboy

Rob,

You are right about that, it would be great if one could be found. Or if a transcript of the original show could be found. Either would go a long ways towards making the station in question look better (if that is possible). And who knows if we heard the show for ourselves or saw a copy of the transcript we might just agree (unlikely as that is) with Mr. Harris that it was done "in jest/tongue in cheek."

Had Mr. Downs heard it, or was he just going by what Ms Phillips said that she'd heard? I agree given that Ms Phillips is the one who orginally got the ball rolling that her coming in on a petition to the CRTC would be helpful.

Exactly, at this point Mr. Harris is his own worst enemy. And is making the allegations appear to be true.

Based on what we've read in the article(s) I'd say that all cyclists everywhere have a right to be concerned as well as uncomfortable with the situation. As sadly even if it was meant to be taken "in jest/tongue in cheek" there are still those out there who will take it serious and act on what they'd heard. And I presume that up there in Canada like down here in the USA that with the freedom of speech comes a responsiblity not to abuse it. Like say if one were to go into a crowded movie theater and yell "FIRE" that one would have to answer for the consiqucnes of their actions.

That at least is better than nothing. Based on what I've read I'd have to say that at the very least that the station owe's cyclists an apology for the show.

That is also good to hear. Hopefully we can keep some sort of pressure on the station.

It doesn't sound like it, and sadly at this point I think that it is safe to say that the station isn't going to do much about it either. And it sounds like if they don't respond that really not much will happen to them. I mean how many stations have actually had their license not renewed because of a few bad letters in their file?

You're probably right about that, which isn't that why they form their own "self-policing" orginizations? To protect themselves?

Which like I'd said before a lot of people/businesses don't realize that things rarely stay local anymore.

Chris516

What is ironic is, Sarah Phillips(the novice cyclist and breast cancer survivor mentioned), will encounter other BC survivors', who have a seething need to run down a cyclist. Just because they love their gas-guzzling vehicles.