CB HI

Be careful about lane position at red lights. When coming to a stop, if the motorist behind approaches with a turn signal on, move left and give them room to turn right. If they do not use a turn signal, take the center of the lane to prevent a right hook and also prevent them from trying to pass you on the right side when the light turns green (this does happen on occasion). If they wanted to turn right but did not signal, they created their own problem.

If you did move left to let a motorist turn right, move back to the center of the lane before the light turns green to prevent the idiot behind the first motorist from trying to pass you on the right.

fuji86

I stay as close to the curb as possible. That said, if the motorist tries to go around and make a right turn, it really doesn't bug me as long as they go slow and are careful/responsible about it. They need to realize the rear wheels and back end of the car turn inside of the front end and that they'll need to make a wider turn at the corner to avoid hitting me. But outside of that it's no big deal. But your encounter is a little over the top for demeanor of a motorist. I recognize what I need to do when I'm the motorist, don't even bother with honking the horn, seems to have been uneventful to this stage of my life too.

dynodonn 

Most motorists that have right hooked me think that they're running their vehicle on the NASCAR circuit, and the motorists pass me accordingly. It really wouldn't bug me either if I had a full roll cage, SAFER barriers, and a medivac unit standing by.

Digital_Cowboy

Agreed, but as I've said this lane was of a substandard width to allow a car to either pass within the lane or make a right turn.

Also from my position I couldn't see if she had her turn signal on or not. The first that I knew of her being behind me was when she started to honk her horn at me to get me to move out of her way.

dynodonn 

I try to pick my battles carefully, and not press my rights in every situation. Though every year the envelope gets pushed out a little further.

Digital_Cowboy

The problem with that riding position is that it reinforces the notion that cyclists do not have a right to be on the road. And that is just going to cause more problems down the road.

Seattle Forrest

I try to make it easy on people who want to go right on red. I stop in the middle of my ( the rightmost ) lane, but when someone comes up behind me, I look back to see if they have their blinker on, and move out of the way if they do. If they look like they're trying to go right, but have no blinker, sometimes I'll point to their right with a quizzical look, which seems to be pretty universally understood.

One day an SUV came up behind me in the right lane, with no blinker, and the wheels pointed forward, not right. So I assumed they were going straight. After about ten seconds of some jackass cyclist (that's me!) not getting outta the damn way, the guy moved into the left lane (close pass at low speed) then sped out into a gap in traffic and made a right turn from the left lane. Tires were squealing at the end. If the driver had put a blinker on, I would have just moved into the next lane.

Digital_Cowboy

All of these encounters help to prove what many of us have said time-and-time again. That is that motorists think that they own the road. And that we cyclists are an annoyance that they wish wasn't on the road.

If they acted like legal and responsible road users themselves and communicated their intentions i.e. using turn signals they would get that same courtesy back. But by acting like a horses ass they're not going to get any cooperation from cyclists or any other road user.

If a motorist has been "disrespected" by a cyclist they need to ask themselves, "have I done all that I could do to be a legal, responsible and cooperative road user?" If they answer themselves honestly and that answer is "no" than that is why they got no "respect" from the cyclist in front of them.

Oh, and on a more positive note, again as with the fool who was talking on his bluetooth headset, I didn't flip her off, or cuss or swear at her. I just asked her where she thought I should go, and when she said she was turning I just basically shrugged my shoulders, and gave her a "so what" look.

As I said, if I'd been a car she would have wait her turn. Why does the fact that I was on a bike change that?

genec

This is pretty much what I do... unless the road is clearly wide enough to share... then I take a position right in the middle of the right most straight thru lane.

What it comes down to is extending courtesy where courtesy is due... when a motorist has a turn signal on and it is a narrow lane, I try to accommodate... but when someone acts the jerk or road hog... well, they get what they put out.

genec

The attitude you are experiencing is what gets me off the bike from time to time... I just get tired of the "so what" and being treated like road trash... sure I can act the jerk too... but that doesn't seem right to me and ultimately it is just putting out more bad karma after bad.

The fact is that motorists choose how they treat cyclists... and when they choose to treat me as a human differently simply because I am on a bike... says a lot about those motorists.

We are all "trying to get somewhere," it should not matter whether we are on foot, horse, in car or whatever... there is no priority for road use.

Seanholio

Careful about painting all automobile drivers with too broad a brush. They're individuals, just like we are, and just like we have ardent FRAPers and ardent VC'ers, there is a variety of attitudes among motorists, as well. Some are inconsiderate, rude, condescending jerks. Others are considerate, polite, and retained their kindergarten sharing skills. A strong majority of motorists view cyclists as inconsiderate, rude, and condescending (and in some cases, they're right, because many cyclists fit that description quite nicely). Could it be that we're all just human, and a certain percentage of any group we join is going to be inconsiderate, rude, and condescending?

I take my lane, and I'll scoot out of the way of a right-turning motorist at a stoplight if I can. I've had encounters with jerks, and someone once tried to run me off the road. Out of the thousands of cars I've interacted with, this was an extremely unusual case. Additionally, I've had 10 drivers stop and ask if I needed anything while I was sitting on the side of the road taking a break from one of my longer rides.

We're all just people. The rest is jingoism.

[edited to add: Looks like Genec and I are on the same page with this, except that I get off the bike because I'm lazy]

Digital_Cowboy

I understand what you're saying. But for me "getting off the bike" isn't an option as I don't drive, and where I live the bus fare for a one-way trip is $2.00. Plus the A/C on them is too cold for me. We do have DART service, but they charge more for that and you have to call and schedule your trip at least a day in advance.

Agreed, how they treat cyclists, pedestrians or even other motorists speaks volumes as to their true personality.

Exactly, respect is a two-way street. IF they want us as cyclists to give them respect than they need to give us cyclists that same level of respect.

As I said in my OP, if that gal had acted in a polite and respectful manner I would have moved further over to my left so that she could pass and make her turn. But with her constant honking and inching forward I was not feeling inclined to do so. I also guess she probably thought that I should have done as that other cyclist and "filtered" up so that I was alongside that little island, instead of "blocking" her from making her turn.

I also had to laugh at him as further up the road the right lane is closed and the left lane is open for construction on a pedestrian bridge. It had previously been closed with orange barrels with warning lights on top of them but apparently some drivers have hit them in the past. It is now closed off with white saw horses and warning lights. I always move over into the left lane taking the lane to keep motorists from passing, and he opted to continue in the closed lane. Also the entire time that he's riding down the road he is still behaving like a "gutter bunny."

Given how he was riding as soon as I could I put enough space between him and me so that people would not think that we were riding together. As his hugging the gutter was just reinforcing to the motorists that that is where we're "suppose" to ride.

fuji86

That's one perception, the other is that at the street corner with a red light, a cyclist and motorist can co-exist and do what they both need to do. I generally don't mind sharing in that regard as long as both parties understand and observe each others safety zones. I no more have any issue with it than I have for them passing me when the light is green. Again, the motorist can't be a ****** about it and in your case that was one stupid *****. The only way you weren't going to be at risk with that one, was to get on the sidewalk, because that one is too stupid to go around you. After looking back at her and saying what you did, I was surprised you turned back around, because those types are type A irrational road rage nut jobs behind the steering wheel of 3,000 lbs of steel and rubber. I agree with you that she was wrong, but at that point you were dealing with someone incapable of connecting the dots, you weren't going to straighten her out, the only thing that might've done that would be a traffic citation and even there some people are too broken to fix.

Schwerelos

You don't have to hug the curb to be curious. I believe and have been taught that it's safer to move forward and left in order to allow a car pass behind you when they are making a right turn. This is because you are in a position where they are less likely to swipe you accidentally with the back end of their car. And because they will be less tempted to try to hurry up and turn in front of you if the light changes as you will be out of their way quicker. I am rarely encounter a situation where being close to the curb makes sense to me. Of course, to do this, I pull forward in to the crosswalk in many circumstances but always check for peds first.

GraysonPeddie

The forum c****r ****er k***s in.

Someone needs to add space between words in the filter list.

Digital_Cowboy

I try not to, but sometimes it's just so hard not to. As I know that just like us cyclists that they're all different. And that no two are exactly alike.

And as I'd said if she had acted with respect, patients and politeness I would have done my best to make room for her to pass. But because she wanted to be a horses ass I wasn't willing to go that "extra mile" for her.

As I did a number of years ago when a "soccer mom" politely asked if I could move to my left a little so that she could make a right hand turn. A little politeness goes a LONG way.

Digital_Cowboy

Agreed, and I don't mind sharing either the road or the lane (when it is safe to do so) particularly when the motorist knows how to be polite and respectful themselves. But if they act like a horses ass (or as we used to say when I was in the Army) if you're going to show your ass don't be surprised when/if you get treated accordingly.

Yes, she was, both honking and inching/creeping up alongside of me to make a right hand turn. I wonder what she'd have done if I had "accidentally" fallen over?

You're probably right about that, except that it'd be just my luck that the next time I'd "run" into her we'd be on the sidewalk and she'd than yell at me to "get in the road."

Fortunately there were plenty of witnesses and she was already slowed down to a crawl so it wasn't like short of getting out of her car and assaulting me that there was anything she could really do.

Yep, and ironically when I stopped off at the pizza joint I stop off at for a slice there were three of St. Pete's finest in there enjoying a couple of pizzas themselves. I joked with them that I could have used them being in the area last night. And kind of surprisingly they all agreed that she was in the wrong and that I was in the right.

And can ya just hear her ranting and raving to her friends and family about the cyclist that "caused" her to get a ticket?

davehbuffalo

This.

WCG

Is this really worth two pages? How many ways can the same thing be said. Just sayin.

Chris516

I 'take the lane' without question. I have had too many close calls from FRAP'ing or allowing motorists to pass on the right in the same lane.

AlmostTrick

I think you may be right, WCG. So here's a different technique just for a little variety:

When approaching a red light were I want to continue straight, I stop in the left half of the right lane. Then I lay my bike on the ground cross ways, and step to the right to block out drivers who may try to squeeze by too closely. If a person wishing to make a right asks politely, I'll step aside to allow it, but a turn signal alone is never good enough. They may have absentmindedly left it on and then clip me when they go straight. Safety first!

Bekologist

what makes you think riding FRAP doesn't include taking the lane? it assuredly does.FRAP for a bicyclist can encompass nearly any road position including over the center line for safety (if a car is pulling out of a parallel spot while violating a bicyclists ROW, for example) or to the left of a very wide lane, if further right is not practicable. What happens when the road speeds go over 40mph again?

AS to the OP's 'dilemma.' yep, i don't move for honkers. but i also position well left to allow right turners to turn and will split lanes and sit on the lane lines at a thru cars right bumper or even in the lane and ahead a little. sometimes a virtual bike box happens to be created by virtue of the advance stop lines (Market Street in San Francisco has a lot of these, and they work in the bicyclists favor) and use this space for destination positioning if available and convenient.

KD5NRH

I find there's nothing that makes me more likely to keep doing exactly what I'm doing. I do check to make sure I'm legal and not about to ride off a cliff or something that would actually justify a honk, but if all that checks, the honker just declared themselves unworthy of any consideration from me.

FunkyStickman

If you pull up behind me at a light, and the light's red... tough luck, you have to wait like everybody else. In my town, I do not give people the opportunity to pull dangerous stunts, otherwise they will, almost every time. I have to make it very clear when it's safe and unsafe to pass me, because people get so focused on passing me they don't even look to see if there's oncoming traffic! Sorry, I'll ride out of your way when I can, but if I can't, too bad for you. Believe it or not, I've only had 1 person give me grief about that in 12 months.

fuji86

That has valid points. But taking the lane isn't necessary for 99.9% of the drivers. Most, if not all of them can go around you safely and will at least try to. IMO, taking the lane is more apt to p*ss even a more normally rational motorist off, because they will inevitably see it as you being selfish and blocking them. Which is probably what happened with the nut case in the threadstarter. Those motorists are going to look for a way to go around you no matter what. And I've never been hooked or swiped in 4+ decades of large and medium city cycling by hugging the curb.

When a cyclist is stopped, they are essentially a pedestrian and being out in a traffic lane, it's just my opinion that using yourself and bike as an impasse or blocking shield never works vs a car. The worst that can happen is a car will hit you, so leave as small a target/object to hit. Middle of the lane and it's guaranteed to be a rear end collision, where the collision could be as bad as rear ended, but more than likely a swipe when curb hugging. And if you're paying attention, like every cyclist is or should be, you can even feel/see the swipe going to occur and step off onto the curb. Just me, but I'm using the curb as a step anyway to stand at the light, just easier with a men's top tube, that way I'm leaning to the sidewalk while stopped, elevated so getting off the bike is easier than flat footed on the road and even won't lean into the lane when I restart from the dead stop.