bluefoxicy

Eh? What is all this? I just bike on my bike so I can ride where I ride. I yield to traffic when safe and reasonable; if someone is impatient, I look for my way out, but if it's not there then I shrug and let 'em wait. Right turn on red is not compulsory.

On some GM cars, you can kick the front bumper sharply and the airbag will deploy. The 1995 Cavalier would deploy the airbag if you hit a pothole too hard ....

Digital_Cowboy

Exactly, yes we know that motorists (a lot but not all) think that FRAP means that we hug the curb/gutter at all times, even if it is unsafe for us to do so.

If the lane in question had been wider I would have done that. But it's too narrow to safely share and any position other than the center would encourage too close of a pass.

If I understand what you're saying, that really wasn't/isn't an option. Yes, there's that little island thing but it is well clear of the stop line and would give anyone behind me the impression that I'm running the red.

Digital_Cowboy

Exactly, as I'd said had she been polite about it, I'd have done my best to make room for her to pass. But given how she was acting, oh so sorry, but I'm not moving an inch.

Digital_Cowboy

Exactly, they'd have to wait for a car that was in front of them so they have to wait for us as well.

I've had motorists attempt to pass me on curves on my daily ride. Knock wood they've done so safely.

The other day when I was riding I had one person yell at me to get on the sidewalk, and about a month before that I had someone call me an "effen a-hole" cause I wouldn't ride in the bike lane. Every (or just about every) on street parking spot was filled. I am NOT going to ride in the door zone.

And I will always assume that a parked car has someone sitting in it and that as I pass they'll be opening the car door into my path. So I figure the best way to avoid that is not to be where the car door is going to be when it opens.

Bekologist

no,no, CHRIS has the misconceptions about his road rights.

Digital_Cowboy

It has been my experience (in about the same 4+ decades of cycling) as well as I think most other cyclists here, that motorists tend to give a cyclist as much space to our left as we leave between ourselves and the curb. And that by hugging the curb/gutter pan only encourages motorists to pass dangerously close. As the closest that I've had motorists pass me is when I've "hugged the curb." By riding at least in the right side tire track most give me more room when passing.

Several years ago, I was riding further to the right side of the road when I had a tanker pass me dangerously close. Had I been further out into the lane the truck driver would have had to change lanes in order to pass me.

The same can be said for any other driver on the road that is "blocking" the lane with their car. I've witnessed numerous old folks (that probably should have given up their license long ago) driving down the road at bicycle speeds.

That is not what the law says. Just because a bicyclist is stopped at a red light/stop sign does NOT transform them into a pedestrian. If you doubt this than I suggest that you contact LAB, The Florida Bicycle Association, and your local police non-emergency number to be educated about that. Again, simply stopping at a traffic control device does NOT transform a bicyclist into a pedestrian.

In all my years of riding, and taking the lane when at a red light/stop sign I have never come close to being rear ended. This woman is only the second or maybe third in I don't know how many years of riding that anyone has behaved in this manner.

The other was a couple of years ago and was an elderly driver who pulled up on my right side (I presumed that he was making a right hand turn) that continued straight through the intersection with me. As I've said I've had more close passes when I ride further to the right I ride.

And again as has been said before by hugging the curb/gutter pan you are just reinforcing the idea that cyclists do not belong on the road. Again as F.S. 316.2065 clearly grants us cyclists the same rights, duties, and responsibilities as any other vehicle on the road.



I've never had a problem balancing while at a traffic light, nor have I had a problem balancing while doing a track stand at a stop sign. If you can't stand and hold your bike up for a short period of time you might have some sort of problem that needs to have a doctor check out.

Or maybe you need to find a smaller bike. You know a bike that actually fits you is a safer bike to ride as well as being more comfortable as well. I can leave one foot clipped in and still balance my bike and keep my left foot on the ground and be comfortable doing so.

Digital_Cowboy

Bek,

I think ya meant Fuji, not Chris.

fuji86

Digital_Cowboy, I see you're the type that has to be injured, crippled or killed to understand that a statute means very little in an accident/wreck. I'd say there are at least 11 others, that wish they had not been standing in the road, mounted or dismounted that see it my way regardless of any statuatory legislation ? Do you really think it made a difference whether they were mounted or dismounted, standing or track standing ? Get my message ? To live, you have to stand or ride for the worst motorist on your commute, otherwise you wind up upset like you are in this thread or like one of these individuals. Now, look at any of the state statutes and see if a lawmaker bothered to write that into the final passed legislation ?

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ck-of-cyclists
https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bicycl...pphu-container
https://www.bikesidela.org/culver-cit...-justice-ride/

And telling me that because I don't track stand or whatever is a problem that a doctor needs to check out for me is absurd. Not everyone will have the same co-ordination and balance as others, even want to remain at risk like that. I offered the suggestion so that others may find it easier to be safer, even have an out for stepping onto the sidewalk if things ever get beyond their control in the street. I mean really, what if the motorist acted on their road rage and simply decided to nudge and push you with their car ? I wonder what would be running thru your mind at that very moment, maybe if you survived it, you'd realize that you were no more than a pedestrian being pushed around and bullied by a motorist sitting in 3,000 lbs of cold steel that doesn't feel pain or bleed. I mean really, go out first thing in the AM and punch a car as hard as you want, as a pedestrian or sitting, even track standing on you bike, then come back here and post that you aren't anything more than a pedestrian ? Chapter and verse of statute you're right, if that's what you want to hear, but the laws of nature/physics always take precedence over the laws of mankind. And if want to debate that, just ask the victims of an earthquake, hurricane, tornado or tsunami. Size matters here, not to mention that a smaller animate object gives way to a larger inanimate object every time. Simple physics.

gcottay

Oh, DG, you are making me feel old.

It took a while, but long ago I finally learned all the way through from head to gizzard that allowing others to control my conduct never leads to a good outcome. That, alas, is what happened to you in this instance. The presence of a horses' ass driver caused you to respond with behavior below your usual high standard.

Digital_Cowboy

IF I am not mistaken in the case that you are citing that the driver is alleged to have been distracted and/or under the influence while she was driving. In which case even "hugging" the curb as you advocate wouldn't have done the cyclists a damn bit of good she still more likely than not would have hit them. Also as I have said ALL of my really close passes have come back when I rode like you and hugged the curb.

Have you ever been trapped between an 18-wheeler and the curb? I have, and trust me it is no fun.

I'm not saying that because you don't track stand that you have a problem, I am suggesting that if you have some sort of balance problem that you might need a checkup.

Also as I said from the sounds of your post you are riding a bike that is the wrong size for you. Maybe if you had a bike that actually fit you, you wouldn't need to rest on a curb.

Oh, and Fuji you needn't bother answering this post as you have earned yourself a spot in my bit bucket. Which makes three in there now.

Digital_Cowboy

Yes, I know that I should have been the bigger person. But I felt no desire to do so. As just because she is/was in a hurry doesn't mean that I have to accommodate her.

contango 

Because in a car you can't easily move to one side. It's the same difference that lets me weave past the stationary vehicles when I'm on a bike when I can't do it in a car.

That said if I come across a jackass driver I'm not necessarily very cooperative either. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often.

Chris516

While I agree with 'taking the lane', how does her physical appearance matter? She is another intolerant motorist behind the wheel. Looking like a runway model doesn't mean squat when it comes to being an intolerant motorist.

Chris516

I was thinking in terms of the interpretation that LEOs' go by. To them FRAP means hugging the curb regardless. So FRAP does include 'taking the lane', but LEOs' prefer to look at it as hugging the curb.

mikeybikes

Lighten up. I'm sure it was a joke.

And yes, it very much matters if she was hot.

fuji86

Nope, never have been trapped between the curb and an 18 wheeler. But have been uncomfortably close with buses, UPS/FedEx trucks, Moving company trucks and even food distributor trucks. Even a Fiat 500 or a Mini Cooper would crush my bike and 190 lb body. Regardless of the size of anyone's bicycle, posting what you did only makes my suggestion for being by the curb and standing with a foot on it make even more sense. The 18 wheeler obviously wasn't giving you the space, any motorist may not be able to stop and standing further from the curb almost guarantees being hit in the event a motorist can't stop. So leave yourself at least that "option/way out" ? With a foot on the curb, it's easier to step off the bike, perhaps even pull the bike up onto the curb with you so it doesn't get crushed either. Tragedy averted, no property damage or bodily injuries. Nobody can control even how other motorists/cars interact even. Is it even remotely foreseeable that a car could hit another car that results in a bicyclist being involved in the chain reaction of collisions. From relying on legislation to being too lazy to take care of your best interests isn't an excuse, regardless of what wrongs another commits. It's what you are actually faced with in a situation, whether you planned and the results of your action. There are no guarantees for anyone, but I'll bank on a better survival chance even if it's a slight inconvenience because right or wrong, I'm the one that ultimately lives with the end result. No insurance payout or legal results are worth pain and suffering for the long term. Throw this one into the bit bucket too man, I have 4 in there now, what do I care, I'm not being charged a fee, they're free.

fuji86

I think even most LEO's have a more lenient interpretation of FRAP. They understand road conditions of pot holes, uneven pavement, broken bottles too, just as they understand not all vehicles are the same width. Last summer an officer could've cited me for riding on the sidewalk in Bal Harbor, FL, and even approached & stopped me for it. I was polite and explained and she had no problem with my explanation. There was road construction in the right most lane and where there wasn't, cars weren't allowing enough room for the uneven pavement and gutter. The explanation was satisfactory and we both carried on with our lives without further incident or need for anyone to pay a fine or challenge anyone in a courtroom in front of a judge. It was a one time ordeal and as disturbing as it was, something I got over quickly. Life's too short for that kind of baggage.

leob1

I have had people do the same thing while I was in my car. One guy went so far as to go around me on the left, and cross infront of me, to make his "right on red". Never a cop around when you want one.

ladyraestewart

I tend taking the entire lane, especially when opposing traffic has just a green light and no protected left turn arrow. I do it more to hopefully send a signal to the vehicles facing me that I am not turning right so they do not just immediately make their left turn thinking I'm turning right because I'm on the right side of the lane.

As for the drivers who get impatient thinking to crowd me out, if I were in a vehicle they would be forced to stay behind me so no harm no foul. Besides, the reality is they are delayed a minute or two. In the big scheme of things that amount of time makes no difference in their commute. I know I'm not teaching them patience but on the other hand, people are rude because someone lets them. I'm not someone.

Digital_Cowboy

And sadly, at least in part it's the gutter bunnies/curb huggers who are helping to "teach" motorists that cyclists don't "belong" on the road. We need to get it through their heads that riding in the gutter pan/hugging the curb is dangerous and is sending a dangerous message to motorists.

DX-MAN

DC, m'friend, you did the right thing. I've seen the slogan from your state:

"SAME ROAD, SAME RIGHTS, SAME RULES"

Love it. It's PERFECT!

I've taken to riding in the 'right tire track' when I'm on the road, and it has caused less trouble. I've been buzzed only 2x this YEAR -- it used to happen more than that WEEKLY! As far as right-turners go, well...if I'm in front of you, I'm on a bike going straight, and you want to turn...wait. Just like I have to, just like you'd have to if I was driving or on a motorcycle. It's not rude. It's giving respect to another road user. Cars and their drivers do NOT have absolute right-of-way, and that's what they need to learn.

Rude and impatient towards me? Do so at your own risk, I'm a trained old soldier with PTSD -- roll the dice.

Digital_Cowboy

DM,

Thank you my friend. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall in her home when she was relating to her friends and family about the "rude cyclist" who wouldn't let her make a right turn.

Exactly, and sadly too many people on both sides don't understand that. And think that sharing the road means that cyclists have to ride in the gutter pan, or hug the curb. As well as getting out of the way of cars as soon as we hear them approach.

Motorists need to learn that we have rights too, and that they cannot bully us into doing what they want us to do.

Yep, it's surprising how much more respect we get the further out into the lane we ride. And as has been said before it seems like the more space that we leave between us and the right side of the road the more space that they leave between them and us when they pass. Exactly, and as soon as they learn that the safer the roads will be for ALL road users, not just motorists.

Yep, I have to laugh at those who "caution" against saying something to a motorist because you don't know who may be "packing." That argument is also true for motorists attempting to bully cyclists off of the road, they don't know which cyclists may be "packing."