View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
178
10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
94
5.63%
I've always worn a helmet
648
38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
408
24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
342
20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll
The helmet thread
11-07-12, 06:54 PM
#4051
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11-07-12, 07:04 PM
#4052
Senior Member
11-07-12, 08:23 PM
#4053
Senior Member
Never-mind, not as funny as I thought it was going to be... 
Last edited by 350htrr; 11-07-12 at 08:45 PM.
11-07-12, 09:00 PM
#4054
Senior Member
Tell me, which studies, in your opinion, were biased because of the funding. Please, be specific. If you are going to libel the people who researched and wrote these studies, I certainly hope you have more to back you up than "my experience." Which is how you seem to explain everything else.
So, which studies are biased?
11-07-12, 09:07 PM
#4056
Senior Member
Go look up the information in the links I provided. There are dozens and dozens of studies there.
To reiterate, here is the fact of the matter about helmet foam:
Some helmets use softer foam and do protect well against (relatively) minor injuries. Knock your head a little, and the material gives. Knock your head a lot and the material gives a lot - to the point that your head will hit the shell and come to a hard stop against whatever you are impacting.
That is broken skull time.
To prevent that, bicycle helmets in the US use a relatively stiff foam. So if you get into a hard impact, it doesn't bottom out and you save yourself from a broken skull. The down side is that foam that strong still applies a large load to your head.
So in US helmets you still get a concussion but save yourself from permanent, severe brain damage.
You can (and should) read about it here: https://www.helmets.org/liners.htm <- that's a link I already provided earlier which you obviously did not bother with.
Your misinformed insistence borders on unethical. People read things like your claims and get hurt as a result.
I'm getting sick of this site again . . . entirely too bad what could be good discussion is so degraded by activists.
To reiterate, here is the fact of the matter about helmet foam:
Some helmets use softer foam and do protect well against (relatively) minor injuries. Knock your head a little, and the material gives. Knock your head a lot and the material gives a lot - to the point that your head will hit the shell and come to a hard stop against whatever you are impacting.
That is broken skull time.
To prevent that, bicycle helmets in the US use a relatively stiff foam. So if you get into a hard impact, it doesn't bottom out and you save yourself from a broken skull. The down side is that foam that strong still applies a large load to your head.
So in US helmets you still get a concussion but save yourself from permanent, severe brain damage.
You can (and should) read about it here: https://www.helmets.org/liners.htm <- that's a link I already provided earlier which you obviously did not bother with.
Your misinformed insistence borders on unethical. People read things like your claims and get hurt as a result.
I'm getting sick of this site again . . . entirely too bad what could be good discussion is so degraded by activists.
So, tell me, how does the foam stiffness -- which you clearly regard as the primary factor in how well a helmet protects you against injury -- influence neuronal shear stress, which is, as I'm sure you know, the major cause of traumatic brain injury? You seem to be *very* uninformed as to the causes of TBI.
So, try again, let's see if you can get things right this time.
11-07-12, 09:46 PM
#4057
Senior Member
I've already read those studies (in most cases, the actual studies, not the abstracts). Telling me to read them again is silly.
So, tell me, how does the foam stiffness -- which you clearly regard as the primary factor in how well a helmet protects you against injury -- influence neuronal shear stress, which is, as I'm sure you know, the major cause of traumatic brain injury? You seem to be *very* uninformed as to the causes of TBI.
So, try again, let's see if you can get things right this time.
So, tell me, how does the foam stiffness -- which you clearly regard as the primary factor in how well a helmet protects you against injury -- influence neuronal shear stress, which is, as I'm sure you know, the major cause of traumatic brain injury? You seem to be *very* uninformed as to the causes of TBI.
So, try again, let's see if you can get things right this time.
11-07-12, 09:48 PM
#4058
Senior Member
The graph below comes from this article on the site of the Dutch bicycle association: https://www.fietsersbond.nl/node/2070
I don't expect you to understand Dutch so let me translate: It plots for various countries the % of bikers wearing a helmet against the number of death cyclists per billion km. If anything, this should tell you that a helmet is by far not the first thing we should be worried about when it comes to bicycle safety.
I don't expect you to understand Dutch so let me translate: It plots for various countries the % of bikers wearing a helmet against the number of death cyclists per billion km. If anything, this should tell you that a helmet is by far not the first thing we should be worried about when it comes to bicycle safety.
11-08-12, 05:35 AM
#4059
Senior Member
Comparing what happens to the average dutch bicyclist has no real bearing to what happens to the average N. American bicyclist, it's like comparing accident rates while riding bicycles on a beach path versus riding bicycles downtown... Not really a fair comparison in my mind...
11-08-12, 07:57 AM
#4060
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It is a real hoot and just plain stupid to say real world accidents are of less importance than "studies"!!!
11-08-12, 10:09 AM
#4062
Senior Member
Real world accidents should certainly not be dismissed, but biased analysis of such by the uninformed, ignorant, and prejudiced should certainly be taken with not just a grain, but a truckload of salt.
11-08-12, 11:16 AM
#4063
Senior Member
Last edited by 350htrr; 11-08-12 at 02:44 PM. Reason: spelling
11-08-12, 11:48 AM
#4064
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Shocking, simply shocking.
11-08-12, 12:06 PM
#4065
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Dude, they've been at this way, way longer than you, and will be at it long after you have moved on to more usful pursuits.
Wear your new helmet in good health.
11-08-12, 02:58 PM
#4066
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Precisely. How often is the assumption that "I wasn't injured because I was wearing a helmet" or "if I'd been wearing a helmet, I wouldn't have been injured". Sure, in some cases a helmet will provide a benefit, but people don't bother to actually figure out whether or not this was the case. They're happy enough to blindly assume that a helmet saved their life.
11-08-12, 04:03 PM
#4067
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I am not qualified to interpret anyone's data regarding the efficacy of wearing a helmet, so in the absence of such knowledge, I will happily err on the side of caution. Ultimately, however, our heads are our own, and only we can decide for ourselves what level of protection we desire, or if it is even beneficial at all.
11-08-12, 05:19 PM
#4068
Senior Member
...and there are plenty in this thread who are happy enough to blindly assume that a helmet didn't save a life or provide exactly the protection that someone claims it did.
11-08-12, 06:01 PM
#4069
Senior Member
People that play with numbers and percentages often seem to forget what they are betting, they aren't betting $1, $5, or even $100... on the roll of the dice. If you crash, it could be anything from nothing, a scrape, a bump on the head, a weeks worth of memory gone, a year of not being able to work, never being normal again, a paraplegic, or death... Not to say the helmet can save you from all these things but really, to say it doesn't help, well my simple little brain just can't wrap itself around that so called "fact" no matter how many smart people say it to me. The little self preservation voice in the back of my head keeps saying "don't believe it" So I choose not to... really, it's as simple as that. 
EDIT; Having said that, I do believe that I have learned a few things that are better to do than just relying on a helmet...
1) Don't rely on the helmet, keep it as the last defence
2) Ride defensively
3) Ride where it's less chance of an unpleasant interaction with vehicles
4) Improving riding skill is more helpful
5) fallow smart riding practices like taking the lane when needed, things like that
6) I'm sure there's more things that would help more, but for now I'm just going to finish my beer...
EDIT; Having said that, I do believe that I have learned a few things that are better to do than just relying on a helmet...
1) Don't rely on the helmet, keep it as the last defence
2) Ride defensively
3) Ride where it's less chance of an unpleasant interaction with vehicles
4) Improving riding skill is more helpful
5) fallow smart riding practices like taking the lane when needed, things like that
6) I'm sure there's more things that would help more, but for now I'm just going to finish my beer...
Last edited by 350htrr; 11-08-12 at 06:21 PM.
11-08-12, 06:29 PM
#4070
Bicikli Huszár
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People that play with numbers and percentages often seem to forget what they are betting, they aren't betting $1, $5, or even $100... on the roll of the dice. If you crash, it could be anything from nothing, a scrape, a bump on the head, a weeks worth of memory gone, a year of not being able to work, never being normal again, a paraplegic, or death... Not to say the helmet can save you from all these things but really, to say it doesn't help, well my simple little brain just can't wrap itself around that so called "fact" no matter how many smart people say it to me. The little self preservation voice in the back of my head keeps saying "don't believe it" So I choose not to... really, it's as simple as that.
11-08-12, 06:54 PM
#4071
Senior Member
None of what you said applies to bicycle riding uniquely. You could make the exact same argument for anything from walking, to driving. If head injury rates are any judge, you'd probably get more use out of a crash helmet in a car rather than on a bike (efficacy aside). Remember: you aren't betting a couple bucks; you're betting your life on the roll of the dice.
Honest, otherwise I couldn't race... 
It's strange, but my little voice that is concerned with my safety/survival mechanism, never said...
1; wear a helmet while walking, it just says, watch where you are going.
2; wear a helmet while showering, it just says, be careful, it slippery.
3; wear a helmet when going up ladders, it just says, 3 point contact at all times.
5; But it does, also say's stuff like, don't feed the bears, don't open the tigers cage, and definitely, don't go in there...
Last edited by 350htrr; 11-08-12 at 08:46 PM. Reason: spelling
11-08-12, 08:41 PM
#4072
Senior Member
When "research" and "statistics" collide with real world happenings, they simply fail. Too many people, myself included have had real world accidents that were mitigated by a helmet to believe all the fog and fuss of the anti helmet cult.
Say tuned for more personal attacks on me.
Say tuned for more personal attacks on me.
11-09-12, 03:34 AM
#4073
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Yes, that's why we have airbags, anti-lock brakes, vehicle dynamic controls... And yes I do believe it would be safer in a car with a helmet, & 5 point seat belts, isn't that why race car-drivers use them? but so far "it" (my survival mechanism) hasn't suggested a helmet for normal driving, But, I must admit I have, worn a helmet in my car..., But they MADE me do it, Honest, otherwise I couldn't race...
It's strange, but my little voice that is concerned with my safety/survival mechanism, never said...
Honest, otherwise I couldn't race... It's strange, but my little voice that is concerned with my safety/survival mechanism, never said...
11-09-12, 05:42 AM
#4074
Senior Member
So it comes down to your gut. Well, OK I guess, but that seems really arbitrary to me. My gut tells me hopping on a bicycle and heading down to the grocery store is remarkably safe. Children do it all the time. If you think bikes are dangerous enough for a survival instinct to take over, go for it, I guess.
11-09-12, 06:10 AM
#4075
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Very few unhelmeted cyclists suffer serious head or brain injury. Yet almost everyone who posts in this thread in favour of helmets appears to have escaped death or serious brain injury because they were wearing a helmet. It must follow either that the helmeted experience massively higher accident rates than the unhelmeted (unlikely, imo) or that in most cases, helmets were irrelevant to the outcome and they would not have been seriously injured had they not been wearing them.
My own real-world experience suggests the latter. On two occasions in my very long cycling life I have crashed in such a way as to hit my head, once on the road and once putting a severe dent in the panel of a panel truck. On neither occasion was I wearing a helmet, on neither occasion was I seriously hurt.
If you have an accident in which you bump your helmeted head, it is natural to assume that the helmet has saved you. That may not be the case, however, and the statistics suggest that it usually isn't.