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The helmet thread

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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.
View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
178
10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
94
5.63%
I've always worn a helmet
648
38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
408
24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
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20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll

The helmet thread

Old 03-30-14, 03:46 PM
  #7326  
Six jours
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Are you concerned that people will actually think you wrote that? Do you honestly believe your fellow posters are so stupid they won't be able to figure it out?

I really am starting to think that that is the problem here: your belief that you alone have any understanding or knowledge about anything. I don't know how else to explain your pages and pages of pedantry.
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Old 03-30-14, 04:21 PM
  #7327  
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Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
Had I been wearing a helmet, that injury would not have occurred. But this was in about 1955, and helmets really did not exist at that time.
Sure they did, they just weren't very popular. A couple years later I had a bike crash specifically because I was wearing a helmet. My father had given me one for my birthday so of course I immediately went out for a ride with it - before my parents had a chance to properly adjust the straps for a proper fit. Hit a pothole in the street, the helmet slipped down over my eyes, and I ran straight into the bumper of a parked car.

My personal observations of the local MHL for children leaves me skeptical of their effects. The first observation was that the number of children seen bicycling to school and the number of bikes in the racks there dropped substantially when the law went into effect. The second observation was of the kids that I still did see riding to school (my bike commute to work went right by an elem. school, a middle school, and a high school). Almost all had helmets, but only a few percent of those helmets were on their heads. Over 90% of them were dangling from their handlebars in a way which certainly didn't appear to add to safety. Apparently the MHL was enforced at the school (and maybe at home), but once they were out of sight of the school the helmet came off.

How did the study of MHL effectiveness correct for the possibility that the laws discourage many kids from bicycling and that the remaining kids who still rode may well have differed from those who quit in various ways that might affect their accident and injury rate?
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Old 03-30-14, 04:22 PM
  #7328  
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If I'd just come in this thread I'd assume you two were anti each other... I'm always impressed that you two still can ride down the street together.
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Old 03-30-14, 04:30 PM
  #7329  
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So here's what I think. I've worn helmets for the last 40 years. I've never needed one. I've worn seat belts since they started putting them in cars in the late 60s. I've never needed them either. I feel I have better things to try my luck at than whether or not I'll go down and need a helmet or seat belt and not have it.
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Old 03-30-14, 07:33 PM
  #7330  
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Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
...
MMach 5,

The two studies are an attempt to get this thread back to discussing helmets;
...
MHL talk = helmet talk ?

I disagree. If this thread were about MHLs, the thread title would probably be something like "The Mandatory Helmet Law thread." However, since the number of posters in BF who support MHLs is laughably miniscule, the thread would be very short. There would be no debate.

Perhaps if MHLs were an option in the poll at the top of each page in this thread, it would be more appropriate to imply that MHLs are "on topic" for this thread.

Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
...
I am in favor of MHLs for kids, and that is what the study was about. Adults can decide on their own.
...
Thank you for clarifying that point.
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Old 03-30-14, 07:45 PM
  #7331  
John C. Ratliff
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
MHL talk = helmet talk ?

I disagree. If this thread were about MHLs, the thread title would probably be something like "The Mandatory Helmet Law thread." However, since the number of posters in BF who support MHLs is laughably miniscule, the thread would be very short. There would be no debate.

Perhaps if MHLs were an option in the poll at the top of each page in this thread, it would be more appropriate to imply that MHLs are "on topic" for this thread.



Thank you for clarifying that point.
Actually, the MHL "debate" is occurring mainly in Bike Forums, and not at the legislature, at least in Oregon and a number of other states. That debate for MHLs for kids is completed. Any debate on this will need to be taken to the individual legislatures, as the laws are now on the books in 21 states.
Mandatory Helmet Laws
Although there is no federal law in the United States requiring helmet use for bicyclists, starting in 1987, states and local jurisdictions began passing their own laws requiring helmet use. Twen- ty-one states report having a mandatory youth helmet policy. Typically these policies apply to youth under age 16. Mandatory helmet laws are controver- sial among bicycling proponents. For more information on these laws and the controversy around them, see Appendix 5, page 215.
2012 Bicycling and Walking Benchmarking Report
John

Last edited by John C. Ratliff; 03-30-14 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 03-31-14, 01:40 PM
  #7332  
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Again we see when a person posts the fact that a helmet would have saved him from some injury the usual suspects from the anti helmet crowd pile on. They still seem to think that studies and reports are more important than real world happenings. There is reality and then there made up fairy tales.

BTW to keep things straight, I am totally against MHLs and have never yelled at someone riding without a helmet.
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Old 03-31-14, 03:15 PM
  #7333  
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Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
Actually, the MHL "debate" is occurring mainly in Bike Forums, and not at the legislature, at least in Oregon and a number of other states. That debate for MHLs for kids is completed. Any debate on this will need to be taken to the individual legislatures, as the laws are now on the books in 21 states.

John
...if it makes you feel any better, I mentioned this many pages back. I even linked an image
of all the USofA states that had helment laws and stuff like that to make it multimedia oriented.

It did no good. It will never do any good. While it is true that even paranoids have enemies,
the level of paranoia that shows up regularly in the helment thread is beyond the pale, given the reality in our country.


What any mention of this fact immediately triggers is a cry of "Australia !!!!"..............in 3....2.....1.
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Old 03-31-14, 03:28 PM
  #7334  
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Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
Actually, the MHL "debate" is occurring mainly in Bike Forums, and not at the legislature, at least in Oregon and a number of other states. That debate for MHLs for kids is completed. Any debate on this will need to be taken to the individual legislatures, as the laws are now on the books in 21 states.

John
There's always a chance it'll reappear on State legislature dockets but for now, yes, city and county legislatures will have to do.

Right across the river from Portland, Orygun we have All Ages Helmet law. I wrote a thank-you email to the lone dissenter on the Vancouver City Council. They got it to pass by earmarking $5000 for free helmets for kids. I bet they blew the $5K after a year or two yet still the cops hassle freedom-loving cyclists on a daily basis. It's sad, really.

All Ages MHLs are really popular in Washington State. There are a good many cities and counties with them in place but one jurisdiction has rescinded a MHL. There's always hope!

Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 03-31-14 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 04-02-14, 06:58 AM
  #7335  
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Those two state seem to be full of people that are for the nanny state. I say again MHLs are dumb and pretty much uninforceable. If the police in those states are harrassing cyclist, they are doing themselves no favors for respect for the law. Arresting little Susie for not wearing a helmet and hauling her off to jail in handcuffs aint purddy!!! But then since she is a scofflaw, she may grow up to be and ax murderer!!!!!
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Old 04-02-14, 12:26 PM
  #7336  
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I rode when I was young but I'm now 50. I need a seat & helmet recommendation.

If I ride more than 5 miles, my nuts get numb. I hear seats these days accomodate men's genitals. I understand I have to wear bicycle shorts. Anyone have a seat they like?

Regarding helmets, I need a helmet that will either prevent sweat from getting into my eyes or keep clear of my forehead so the wind will allow my sweat to dry before the sweat gets into my eyes.

Seat & helmet recommendations need to have a make & model so I can do a search or have a link provided.

Thanks.
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Old 04-02-14, 01:21 PM
  #7337  
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petsamo

One word-------recumbents----bike or trike. No pain all fun.
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Old 04-02-14, 01:42 PM
  #7338  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
petsamo

One word-------recumbents----bike or trike. No pain all fun.
I like speed, so I can get from point a to point b quickly, or do more miles with little time.
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Old 04-02-14, 02:07 PM
  #7339  
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I love my Brooks B-17 Imperial. The Imperial line of Brooks Saddles have a cut out that causes the sides to flare out, causing the part under your junk to dip down to relieve pressure there.

That being said, you might look at how you are fit for your bike. Bike fit and posture can make a huge difference regarding crotch issues. If you will rock back on your pelvis so that your sit bones are taking your weight, you can relieve a lot of 'taint pressure.

As for sweat in your eyes, look into a Gutr band. It's basically a headband that redirects sweat around your face. I haven't tried one, but it sounds interesting.
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Old 04-02-14, 04:27 PM
  #7340  
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
Brooks B-17 Imperial ... Gutr band
The Brooks B17 is way off my budget. I bought a Sunlite Cloud-9 bike seat. I'll see how that goes. Once I get a seat I can get comfortable with, I'll get a Gutr band & helmet. Thanks MMach.
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Old 04-02-14, 05:20 PM
  #7341  
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Originally Posted by Petsamo View Post
I like speed, so I can get from point a to point b quickly, or do more miles with little time.
Recumbents are fast and fun, unless you have stairs at work or home, then they suck.

For saddles I like Charge Spoon. $28 at universal. Light and comfy.

I think saddle comfort comes more from bicycle fit and personal fitness than a saddle make/model.

Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 04-02-14 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 04-02-14, 07:48 PM
  #7342  
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Originally Posted by Petsamo View Post
I rode when I was young but I'm now 50. I need a seat & helmet recommendation.

If I ride more than 5 miles, my nuts get numb. I hear seats these days accomodate men's genitals. I understand I have to wear bicycle shorts. Anyone have a seat they like?

Regarding helmets, I need a helmet that will either prevent sweat from getting into my eyes or keep clear of my forehead so the wind will allow my sweat to dry before the sweat gets into my eyes.

Seat & helmet recommendations need to have a make & model so I can do a search or have a link provided.

Thanks.
Saddles are too personal for internet recommendations to be worth anything. IMO, your best bet is to find a shop or online retailer with a liberal return policy regarding saddles and then just try as many as it takes.

WRT the helmet/sweat issue, I second the suggestion of the sweat gutter, or however they're spelling it. I personally just wear a cycling cap, and buy my helmets a size larger to make room.
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Old 04-02-14, 10:24 PM
  #7343  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
Saddles are too personal for internet recommendations to be worth anything. IMO, your best bet is to find a shop or online retailer with a liberal return policy regarding saddles and then just try as many as it takes.

WRT the helmet/sweat issue, I second the suggestion of the sweat gutter, or however they're spelling it. I personally just wear a cycling cap, and buy my helmets a size larger to make room.
I second what Six jours states above. Saddles for upright bicycles is a very personal thing. I have used a split saddle, and liked it too. Mine has a thick foam base too, and is being used by my wife now (when she rides, which is rare--I'm hoping to work on that this summer). She had a factory saddle from a well-known bicycle manufacturer which caused her to have severe bruising after a fairly long ride. I currently ride a Brooks saddle, but these leather saddles need almost a year to break in--they are not too comfortable until they are broken in, and then become very nice.

I also have a recumbant bicycle, and really enjoy it. The short wheelbase recumbants can be as fast or faster than upright bicycles (they are banned from bicycle races by UCI, who did it in 1934). Because of their improved aerodynamics, recumbant bicycles are (or at least can be) faster than upright bicycles and have improved comfort (the seat is wonderful on some, and minimalist on others depending upon the rider's reason for riding). Many recumbant shops will let you take one for a ride if you want.

Concerning helmets, I use the same as Six jours--a cycling hat or a cap under the helmet. I've found a running cap without the button on top which has a bit better brim than my cycling hat, so I use both.


John
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Old 04-02-14, 10:45 PM
  #7344  
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Mandatory Motorcycle Helmet Laws

Interesting charts on the effect of repealing mandatory helmet laws. Motorcycle helmets .

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...laws.html?_r=0
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Old 04-02-14, 11:28 PM
  #7345  
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How nice, a back door helmet thread.

Especially one trying to equate motorcycle helmets with bicycle helmets / apples v oranges.
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Old 04-03-14, 05:51 AM
  #7346  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
Saddles are too personal for internet recommendations to be worth anything. IMO, your best bet is to find a shop or online retailer with a liberal return policy regarding saddles and then just try as many as it takes.
You can get closer then hit and miss when it comes to saddles by measuring your sit bones distance, some bike shops have a special pad you can do that on, or you can do it yourself by setting on a block of styrofoam or a corrugated cardboard etc.

John C Ratliff; the comment you made about a Brooks B17 taking a year to break in is only true if you only ride less than 800 miles a year. The average break in time for one of those saddles is between 500 to 800 miles, on rare occasion I have heard of 300 miles but I think those people over used the Proofide which will shorten the life of the saddle. When I broke mine in I used no Proofide and it took about 800 miles, After it broke in I started to use the Proofide about once every 6 months. Brooks saddles by the way should never be treated with oil or water for breaking in, it will ruin the saddle in short order especially the heavier the rider is.
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Old 04-03-14, 06:38 AM
  #7347  
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As I have posted many times riding a bent or a trike eliminates pain in the never never regions. Riding a bent is also safer since you are closer to the ground, and on a LWB bent you cant be thrown over the handlebars and you can brake harder. Even then you should wear a helmet.

With riding bents with a helmet, mirrors, flags, and riding safely, cycling is indeed very safe.
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Old 04-03-14, 06:44 AM
  #7348  
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Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
Our society in the USA has decided that alcohol and tobacco should be restricted from kids.
however letting them drive dangerous vehicles is perfectly okay, whats up with that?

and ofcourse banning those substances didnt in any way prevent them from being used by the same kids
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Old 04-03-14, 09:12 AM
  #7349  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Interesting charts on the effect of repealing mandatory helmet laws. Motorcycle helmets .

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...laws.html?_r=0
I live in a state with no motorcycle MHL, and the next state over likewise has no MHL. Neither state or any of the municipalities I ride through have bicycle MHLs. I nearly always wear a helmet when cycling, either motor- or bi-. And I actively fight cycling MHLs when they come up for discussion in my region or state, either motor- or bi-.

Usually, motorcyclists figure out helmets are great, especially full-face ones, during the first rainstorm they ride through at speed...
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Old 04-03-14, 09:49 AM
  #7350  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
John C Ratliff; the comment you made about a Brooks B17 taking a year to break in is only true if you only ride less than 800 miles a year. The average break in time for one of those saddles is between 500 to 800 miles, on rare occasion I have heard of 300 miles but I think those people over used the Proofide which will shorten the life of the saddle. When I broke mine in I used no Proofide and it took about 800 miles, After it broke in I started to use the Proofide about once every 6 months. Brooks saddles by the way should never be treated with oil or water for breaking in, it will ruin the saddle in short order especially the heavier the rider is.
On the flip side my B17 was best new when it was firm. After 1k miles it became less supportive and less comfortable. It also changed depending on weather. After years of trying to make a Brooks work (switched to team pro in middle of all that as they were said to be firmer) I finally got a plastic saddle and it provides the same repeatable firm ride no matter the temperature, humidity or how much I sweat into it.

I also wear a helmet whenever I cycle. I don't expect it to help for any major impacts, but it may prevent some scalp road rash. Keeps the sun off which is also a great side benefit.
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