Police kill rider with taser
#77
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I agree, and I think it's also possible that the inexperienced officer may have had a run of bad experiences with drug couriers on bikes that may have adversely affected his perception of the threat posed by the bicyclist. Many departments here in NC, like other states, regularly stop people for bicycling infractions as a pretext for investigation related to drug activity. Less than a year ago, just 20 miles away, a bicyclist in Weldon NC shot at two officers who were attempting to stop him:
https://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/8864682/
Both stops happened near the I-95 corridor, a major drug traffic route. While most of us reading this list may think of bicyclists as harmless, an inexperienced law enforcement officer who had mostly negative experiences where bicyclist enforcement has targeted drug crimes and resulted in a recent past shooting might end up trigger happy as a result, with tragic consequences.
https://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/8864682/
Both stops happened near the I-95 corridor, a major drug traffic route. While most of us reading this list may think of bicyclists as harmless, an inexperienced law enforcement officer who had mostly negative experiences where bicyclist enforcement has targeted drug crimes and resulted in a recent past shooting might end up trigger happy as a result, with tragic consequences.
#78
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I agree, and I think it's also possible that the inexperienced officer may have had a run of bad experiences with drug couriers on bikes that may have adversely affected his perception of the threat posed by the bicyclist. Many departments here in NC, like other states, regularly stop people for bicycling infractions as a pretext for investigation related to drug activity. Less than a year ago, just 20 miles away, a bicyclist in Weldon NC shot at two officers who were attempting to stop him:
https://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/8864682/
Both stops happened near the I-95 corridor, a major drug traffic route. While most of us reading this list may think of bicyclists as harmless, an inexperienced law enforcement officer who had mostly negative experiences where bicyclist enforcement has targeted drug crimes and resulted in a recent past shooting might end up trigger happy as a result, with tragic consequences.
https://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/8864682/
Both stops happened near the I-95 corridor, a major drug traffic route. While most of us reading this list may think of bicyclists as harmless, an inexperienced law enforcement officer who had mostly negative experiences where bicyclist enforcement has targeted drug crimes and resulted in a recent past shooting might end up trigger happy as a result, with tragic consequences.
Which raises the question that I've asked before. Given that this officer had only been on the job for a month where was his training officer? Wasn't the cop who body slammed a CM participant also on the job for about a month or so? Also given that this cop had only been on the force for a month how many negative run-ins could he have had with people on bikes?
I agree, I've read a couple of articles that have shown that in the few cities that still have mandatory bicycle registration laws. That the police will use the lack of a registration sticker has grounds for harassing otherwise law abiding cyclists over.
Is it S.O.P for police departments to place rookie cops in positions where their lack of training can escalate a situation into one with deadly results? Also shouldn't the rookie have been given the information that he was going to investigate a person having fallen and potentially being drunk? How does that equal the rookie thinking that it was a potential drug bust?
#79
Senior Member
I could say the same thing to you. Both cases are (whether you see it or not) similar. As in both cases we have a person who was minding their own business when a LEO attempted to stop them. Both were tased, the only difference is/was that the first man survived his encounter with the LEO(s) and the second man didn't.
However:
There was certainly intent on your part to bring your uninformed pro-helmet agenda into a thread that has nothing to do with helmet use. It's not mentioned in the OP, not mentioned in the original cited article, not mentioned in any post on this thread until you bring it up. Helmet use is a seriously contentious issue with its own stickied thread for those who want to participate in the debate. Post there regarding helmet use if you want, leave your helmet trolling out of this thread.
#80
Senior Member
Drug traffic related crimes are very high next to I-95 in NC and drop off with distance from the corridor. The area surrounding I-95 in NC is rural; the intensity of drug crimes associated with I-95 make it different from rural areas farther away. Also, being low density rural, bicycle commuting in that area of NC is not very common except among those who cannot drive cars, such as people who cannot get licenses, illegal immigrants, and people with disabilities. It's not likely that police who are targeting people whom they think look like local drug couriers are going to accidentally net a card-carrying ACLU member bike commuting to his law office, so they may feel emboldened to conduct such stops with impunity.
#81
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Drug traffic related crimes are very high next to I-95 in NC and drop off with distance from the corridor. The area surrounding I-95 in NC is rural; the intensity of drug crimes associated with I-95 make it different from rural areas farther away. Also, being low density rural, bicycle commuting in that area of NC is not very common except among those who cannot drive cars, such as people who cannot get licenses, illegal immigrants, and people with disabilities. It's not likely that police who are targeting people whom they think look like local drug couriers are going to accidentally net a card-carrying ACLU member bike commuting to his law office, so they may feel emboldened to conduct such stops with impunity.
#82
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I wouldn't take the report that he had been on the job for 1 month at face value. Every police agency I know has an training program that requires new officers satisfactorily complete a training program under the immediate and continuous supervision of a field training officer before the trainee is allowed to patrol solo. I would guess he had been on his own for a month.
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Yes, and you're good right up to here. If you want to compare the two situations regarding taser use and possible police misconduct, knock yourself out, I'll not fault you for it.
However:
Bzzt. Not so much. As in: you cannot back up that assertion in any way, shape, or form. I.e. Was the guy in the OP wearing a helmet?
However:
Bzzt. Not so much. As in: you cannot back up that assertion in any way, shape, or form. I.e. Was the guy in the OP wearing a helmet?
There was certainly intent on your part to bring your uninformed pro-helmet agenda into a thread that has nothing to do with helmet use. It's not mentioned in the OP, not mentioned in the original cited article, not mentioned in any post on this thread until you bring it up. Helmet use is a seriously contentious issue with its own stickied thread for those who want to participate in the debate. Post there regarding helmet use if you want, leave your helmet trolling out of this thread.
A helmet may or may not have had a bearing on the outcome in this particular case, but we'll never know now, will we?
Last edited by Digital_Cowboy; 11-29-11 at 02:23 PM.
#84
Senior Member
You really think that? Given that the article that I linked to makes it clear that the person who was tased had hit the ground hard enough to break the helmet that he was wearing at the time. It is reasonable to presume that if he hadn't had a helmet on he would have suffered even greater injuries then he had already received at the hands of the LEOs. We don't know if the deceased was or wasn't wearing a helmet. As there is/was no mention of it in the article. Sadly we do not even as of yet (if I am not mistaken) know what the cause of death was other then that the taser played some role in it.
And yet you go ahead and do it. And then keep arguing the point when you are clearly, totally, completely in the wrong on this.
Your hands just magically typed pro-helmet nonsense having nothing to do with this thread into your response? Automatic writing, channeling some now deceased former helmet wearer?
THEN WHY'D YOU BRING IT UP IN THIS THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE???
Last edited by mconlonx; 11-29-11 at 03:57 PM.
#86
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As he took a situation that clearly was not violent and turned it into one with a fatality.
And what do you call using a taser on a person who is riding a bicycle?
Again I think that any reasonable person with "half an ounce of common sense" would see it for "the recipe for disaster" that it turned out to be.
Think about it like this, how would you feel if it had been your father, brother, uncle, cousin or son who ended up dead after being tased by a cop? Would you be so forgiving and understanding of the rookie cop?
And again I have to ask given that this cop was only on the job for about a month where the bloody hell was his training officer?
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#89
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Here's the equation. It's pretty simple.
cops=dicks
Never trust a cop. Never speak to a cop unless in the presence of a lawyer. If a cop asks if he can (a) come in or (b) look at your bike, the answer is "no." Never stop for a cop with his lights on unless in a populated area where others can see you.
cops=dicks
cops=dicks
Never trust a cop. Never speak to a cop unless in the presence of a lawyer. If a cop asks if he can (a) come in or (b) look at your bike, the answer is "no." Never stop for a cop with his lights on unless in a populated area where others can see you.
cops=dicks
#90
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#91
- Bikes Not Bombs -
Here is a good reason to hate the police.
This video will change your opinion on Law Enforcement no matter what opinion you hold at the current moment.
https://youtu.be/ADq8wGH54B8 Just try and grit your teeth and bare it, it's a real perception changer. Some of the video is about the military too, I know that doesn't really have to do with the OP, but this thread has gotten off track anyway...
https://youtu.be/ADq8wGH54B8 Just try and grit your teeth and bare it, it's a real perception changer. Some of the video is about the military too, I know that doesn't really have to do with the OP, but this thread has gotten off track anyway...
#92
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So what all of the cops that have been suspended pending a full investigation were wrongly suspended?
Hmm, let's see we have a person riding a bicycle minding their own business, they for whatever reason fall. Someone calls the police to report that a "drunk person" fell. The police sent someone who upon not getting the results that he expected in attempting to stop the person. Choose to use his taser to stop the person. Whereupon the person received some sort injuries that resulted in the person who was tased dying.
You really think that it is "reasonable" for the police to be able use a taser on a person on a bicycle? When the only thing that said person has done "wrong" was to fall over.
As I've said, not too long ago while I was riding my front wheel hit a patch of loose sand or gravel and I fell. I'm glad that no one called the police to report me as a possible "drunk" otherwise I might have been tased. I have also taken food out of my pockets to eat, so again I am glad that I've never been "caught" by a LEO while doing so, as again I guess I could have been tased for having done so.
The very FIRST mistake that this rookie cop made was he assumed that the person on the bike was guilty of something. For that reason alone he should at least be suspended and made to take a remedial course on "a person/suspect is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty.
Really, you don't think that a reasonable person with half an ounce of common sense wouldn't realize that common sense says that tasing a person riding a bicycle isn't a good idea?
So, if one of your family members was doing the same thing and ended up getting tased and dead, it wouldn't upset you?
Given that the rookie in question assumed that he was being ignored and/or that the person on the bike was trying to flee. Instead of assuming that the person suffered some sort of disability. He reaches for his taser and tases a person riding a bicycle.
Again, I ask what if instead of riding a bicycle what if the deceased had been riding a motorcycle/scooter/moped or driving a car? Would you still be in favor of them being tased?
Hmm, let's see we have a person riding a bicycle minding their own business, they for whatever reason fall. Someone calls the police to report that a "drunk person" fell. The police sent someone who upon not getting the results that he expected in attempting to stop the person. Choose to use his taser to stop the person. Whereupon the person received some sort injuries that resulted in the person who was tased dying.
You really think that it is "reasonable" for the police to be able use a taser on a person on a bicycle? When the only thing that said person has done "wrong" was to fall over.
As I've said, not too long ago while I was riding my front wheel hit a patch of loose sand or gravel and I fell. I'm glad that no one called the police to report me as a possible "drunk" otherwise I might have been tased. I have also taken food out of my pockets to eat, so again I am glad that I've never been "caught" by a LEO while doing so, as again I guess I could have been tased for having done so.
The very FIRST mistake that this rookie cop made was he assumed that the person on the bike was guilty of something. For that reason alone he should at least be suspended and made to take a remedial course on "a person/suspect is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty.
So, if one of your family members was doing the same thing and ended up getting tased and dead, it wouldn't upset you?
Given that the rookie in question assumed that he was being ignored and/or that the person on the bike was trying to flee. Instead of assuming that the person suffered some sort of disability. He reaches for his taser and tases a person riding a bicycle.
Again, I ask what if instead of riding a bicycle what if the deceased had been riding a motorcycle/scooter/moped or driving a car? Would you still be in favor of them being tased?
#93
Senior Member
Given the resulting backlash, don't you think that this rookie officer at the very least should be temporarily suspended?
...Would you be so forgiving and understanding of the rookie cop?
And again I have to ask given that this cop was only on the job for about a month where the bloody hell was his training officer?
...Would you be so forgiving and understanding of the rookie cop?
And again I have to ask given that this cop was only on the job for about a month where the bloody hell was his training officer?
Given that this officer had only been on the job for a month where was his training officer? Also given that this cop had only been on the force for a month how many negative run-ins could he have had with people on bikes?
Is it S.O.P for police departments to place rookie cops in positions where their lack of training can escalate a situation into one with deadly results? Also shouldn't the rookie have been given the information that he was going to investigate a person having fallen and potentially being drunk? How does that equal the rookie thinking that it was a potential drug bust?
Is it S.O.P for police departments to place rookie cops in positions where their lack of training can escalate a situation into one with deadly results? Also shouldn't the rookie have been given the information that he was going to investigate a person having fallen and potentially being drunk? How does that equal the rookie thinking that it was a potential drug bust?
To whit: was the officer previously employed at another department? Where do you come off calling him a "rookie," like it's some kind of fact here? Please quote from the OP or other sources to support your assertion.
Given that you've displayed a grand sense of presumption not based on any kind of facts, I think it's save to assume that most of what you write is pure, speculative BS.
But lets review this line again:
Maybe you should take the same course...?
Last edited by mconlonx; 11-30-11 at 11:05 AM.
#94
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Love to watch the evolution of your presumptions into pure, unadulterated made up BS.
To whit: was the officer previously employed at another department? Where do you come off calling him a "rookie," like it's some kind of fact here? Please quote from the OP or other sources to support your assertion.
Given that you've displayed a grand sense of presumption not based on any kind of facts, I think it's save to assume that most of what you write is pure, speculative BS.
But lets review this line again:
Maybe you should take the same course...?
To whit: was the officer previously employed at another department? Where do you come off calling him a "rookie," like it's some kind of fact here? Please quote from the OP or other sources to support your assertion.
Given that you've displayed a grand sense of presumption not based on any kind of facts, I think it's save to assume that most of what you write is pure, speculative BS.
But lets review this line again:
Maybe you should take the same course...?
And given that the actions of law enforcement can have and as we see in this situation do have deadly consequences they are and should be held to a higher level of conduct. Is it a double standard? Yes, it is but again given the deadly consequences their actions can have it is one that I think that most people can accept.
Given that the only thing that had happened was that the person fell, not witnessed by the LEO and then took something from his pocket and put it in his mouth what did he do that he "deserved" to die? How many American's are hard of hearing or are totally deaf? How many American's suffer from seizures? Or are developmentally challenged?
They shouldn't have to worry that their disabilities can/will cost them their lives if they encounter a LEO on the street. The police should be trained to recognize the possibility that person that they are attempting to stop to talk to isn't ignoring them but may not hear them, or understand that the person following them wants to talk to them.
#96
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Might I ask why this type of argument is breaking out when we still have no updates?
#98
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I think DC means well but it seems he's quite passionate about all this and seems to lead to an overflow of input from him towards all fronts, hell I've even found on occasion I agree with him.. but you're just giving the mouse a cookie by engaging in the speculation before the autopsy and investigation reports come in.
#99
Senior Member
I think DC means well but it seems he's quite passionate about all this and seems to lead to an overflow of input from him towards all fronts, hell I've even found on occasion I agree with him.. but you're just giving the mouse a cookie by engaging in the speculation before the autopsy and investigation reports come in.
That's why I pointed out the "innocent until proven guilty" part of what he posted -- maybe he should wait until the info is available before staking out a position. Kinda hypocritical to comment on the situation, essentially assuming the cop is guilty and green before getting any more of the facts than those presented in the original skimpy report.
#100
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I think DC means well but it seems he's quite passionate about all this and seems to lead to an overflow of input from him towards all fronts, hell I've even found on occasion I agree with him.. but you're just giving the mouse a cookie by engaging in the speculation before the autopsy and investigation reports come in.
What are the odds that the results of the autopsy will be either printed in the paper or posted here?