Delaware Cyclist Ticketed for Riding His Bike
#151
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
When there is no other choice... well, there is no other choice. Too bad the motorists fail to understand that.
#152
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#153
Senior Member
It's been a little while since I posted here, but I wanted to check in and let everyone know that I successfully defended myself on Tuesday (with the assistance of an expert witness courtesy of BikeDE). The case went mostly to plan and I learned a few things about how to present a good (better) defense. You can read a little about it here: A Busy Tuesday! Cyclist Is Not Guilty. Rumble Strip Fix Test Will Be Completed by 2nd Week of June | Bike Delaware Inc.
#154
Gearhead
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chatsworth, Ga.
Posts: 236
Bikes: 1982 Schwinn Sidewinder, Sun EZ-1 Recumbent, Cannondale R-400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
8 Posts
They can't write me a ticket for riding my bicycle anywhere in this state. A bicycle is a vehicle, by state law, and I have a right to ride on any public roadway, where ever I want, except where specifically prohibited (such as closed roads, sidewalks, etc...). I also have the same responsibilities, and will be ticketed, or arrested for breaking the laws and statutes. I don't agree with all the laws in Ga., but I will say this for them....When they make a law, they enforce it, and do so fairly. It applies to everyone equally.
#155
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,040
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro, Strada
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Austin's police department has stated that about 1% of the tickets they give out are to cyclists. (And yes, I imagine that very few of these are for speeding.)
I could look up what percentage of the tickets that APD gives out are for speeding but even if I assume it's 30% that's only a 30:1 ratio here, not 10,000:1.
I see the smilie so I imagine you're being facetious ... but even so, I thought this was worth mentioning.
#156
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4260 Post(s)
Liked 1,364 Times
in
945 Posts
Somehow I suspect this is not true.
Austin's police department has stated that about 1% of the tickets they give out are to cyclists. (And yes, I imagine that very few of these are for speeding.)
I could look up what percentage of the tickets that APD gives out are for speeding but even if I assume it's 30% that's only a 30:1 ratio here, not 10,000:1.
I see the smilie so I imagine you're being facetious ... but even so, I thought this was worth mentioning.
Austin's police department has stated that about 1% of the tickets they give out are to cyclists. (And yes, I imagine that very few of these are for speeding.)
I could look up what percentage of the tickets that APD gives out are for speeding but even if I assume it's 30% that's only a 30:1 ratio here, not 10,000:1.
I see the smilie so I imagine you're being facetious ... but even so, I thought this was worth mentioning.
That 1% of tickets in Austin seems way high (I'd have to see a citation for that). And Austin is one place. That is, if it's really that high in Austin, it doesn't mean it's that high everywhere.
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-21-14 at 05:29 PM.
#158
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,040
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro, Strada
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
This is an OLD thread. Schwinnhund is bizarrely resurrecting a whole mess of old threads for some reason.
That 1% of tickets in Austin seems way high (I'd have to see a citation for that). And Austin is one place. That is, if it's really that high in Austin, it doesn't mean it's that high everywhere.
That 1% of tickets in Austin seems way high (I'd have to see a citation for that). And Austin is one place. That is, if it's really that high in Austin, it doesn't mean it's that high everywhere.
But even if Austin's percentage is quadruple the national average, and running with my 30% guess ... that's still only a 240:1 ratio, still somewhat short of 10,000:1.
And this particular thread is only six months old ... so "old", not "OLD" or "OLD" or "OLD".
Last edited by dougmc; 07-21-14 at 07:12 PM.
#159
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4260 Post(s)
Liked 1,364 Times
in
945 Posts
OK, my memory failed me ... it's one half of a percent of all citations, not one percent.
But even if Austin's percentage is quadruple the national average, and running with my 30% guess ... that's still only a 240:1 ratio, still somewhat short of 10,000:1.
And this particular thread is only six months old ... so "old", not "OLD" or "OLD" or "OLD".
But even if Austin's percentage is quadruple the national average, and running with my 30% guess ... that's still only a 240:1 ratio, still somewhat short of 10,000:1.
And this particular thread is only six months old ... so "old", not "OLD" or "OLD" or "OLD".
So, it's a factor of 200. That's huge!
10,000 was an obvious exaggeration.
Austin is a college town/city. The percentage of cyclists is possibly multiple factors larger than many places in the US.
0.5% still seems oddly large.
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-21-14 at 07:38 PM.
#160
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,040
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro, Strada
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
So? I remember when it first appeared, but I didn't go back and check the date until you brought it up. And it's not *that* old -- less than two months since the guy updated the thread to say he won in court.
Compared to what?
Cars outnumber cyclists about 50:1 in this town (the cyclist modal share is 2% here lately according to the city), so it shouldn't surprise you that there's more speeding tickets than cyclist tickets. What was the point of that ("obvious exaggeration") statistic anyways?
Also note that the 240:1 figure was assuming that the national average was 4x Austin (which was a wild ass guess) -- if 30% of the tickets that APD writes in Austin are for speeding (another wild ass guess, but if we include tickets for things like inspection and tags, and I suspect that APD does when they count their tickets, I suspect that the percentage is probably less than that) then the Austin figure is 60:1.
And yet you have your citation. If you don't like it, take it up with Acevedo. As you said, it's a college town, and we have more cyclists than most other cities for that and perhaps other reasons.
Given the 2% and 0.5% figures ... it does say that motorists get cited 4x as often as cyclists here, if we take the modal share at face value. Though I wonder if that also includes things that cyclists never get cited for like license/registration/inspection/insurance. Pulling over one car one time can result in a ticket for no insurance, no inspection, expired tags, no license ... and running a stop sign, where the cyclist is only eligible for the latter. I wonder if that's part of the difference -- after all, I know a significant number of moving violations also come with something else -- expired tags or inspection or no insurance being the most common -- but I don't know the exact percentage. I
So, it's a factor of 200. That's huge!
Cars outnumber cyclists about 50:1 in this town (the cyclist modal share is 2% here lately according to the city), so it shouldn't surprise you that there's more speeding tickets than cyclist tickets. What was the point of that ("obvious exaggeration") statistic anyways?
Also note that the 240:1 figure was assuming that the national average was 4x Austin (which was a wild ass guess) -- if 30% of the tickets that APD writes in Austin are for speeding (another wild ass guess, but if we include tickets for things like inspection and tags, and I suspect that APD does when they count their tickets, I suspect that the percentage is probably less than that) then the Austin figure is 60:1.
0.5% still seems oddly large.
Given the 2% and 0.5% figures ... it does say that motorists get cited 4x as often as cyclists here, if we take the modal share at face value. Though I wonder if that also includes things that cyclists never get cited for like license/registration/inspection/insurance. Pulling over one car one time can result in a ticket for no insurance, no inspection, expired tags, no license ... and running a stop sign, where the cyclist is only eligible for the latter. I wonder if that's part of the difference -- after all, I know a significant number of moving violations also come with something else -- expired tags or inspection or no insurance being the most common -- but I don't know the exact percentage. I
Last edited by dougmc; 07-22-14 at 12:32 AM.
#161
Gearhead
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chatsworth, Ga.
Posts: 236
Bikes: 1982 Schwinn Sidewinder, Sun EZ-1 Recumbent, Cannondale R-400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
8 Posts
It's still open, isn't it? What have you got against others continuing a discussion? If it bugs you, then just ignore it.
And I mildly take exception to the characterization that I might be a felon. That was uncalled for. I am a pro musician, and I travel a lot, mostly to places without an internet connection, or the time to use one. So when I get some time off, it takes me a bit to catch up. As far as I know, there is no law against that.
Since there have been a few replies after mine, It seems others also do not mind continuing the discussions. Are they at fault as well?
And I mildly take exception to the characterization that I might be a felon. That was uncalled for. I am a pro musician, and I travel a lot, mostly to places without an internet connection, or the time to use one. So when I get some time off, it takes me a bit to catch up. As far as I know, there is no law against that.
Since there have been a few replies after mine, It seems others also do not mind continuing the discussions. Are they at fault as well?
#162
Gearhead
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chatsworth, Ga.
Posts: 236
Bikes: 1982 Schwinn Sidewinder, Sun EZ-1 Recumbent, Cannondale R-400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
8 Posts
Interesting points. I think you are on to something there. A motor vehicle can be cited for a multitude of violations that do not effect bicyclists. One traffic stop could result in 5 or more separate citations being issued (in theory, anyway)....so, if we go by the raw number of citations, without regard to how many traffic stops were involved, you would probably get a very inflated figure that could be somewhat misleading. You would really need all the information to make a proper evaluation. That could be a tough job.
So? I remember when it first appeared, but I didn't go back and check the date until you brought it up. And it's not *that* old -- less than two months since the guy updated the thread to say he won in court.
Compared to what?
Cars outnumber cyclists about 50:1 in this town (the cyclist modal share is 2% here lately according to the city), so it shouldn't surprise you that there's more speeding tickets than cyclist tickets. What was the point of that ("obvious exaggeration") statistic anyways?
Also note that the 240:1 figure was assuming that the national average was 4x Austin (which was a wild ass guess) -- if 30% of the tickets that APD writes in Austin are for speeding (another wild ass guess, but if we include tickets for things like inspection and tags, and I suspect that APD does when they count their tickets, I suspect that the percentage is probably less than that) then the Austin figure is 60:1.
And yet you have your citation. If you don't like it, take it up with Acevedo. As you said, it's a college town, and we have more cyclists than most other cities for that and perhaps other reasons.
Given the 2% and 0.5% figures ... it does say that motorists get cited 4x as often as cyclists here, if we take the modal share at face value. Though I wonder if that also includes things that cyclists never get cited for like license/registration/inspection/insurance. Pulling over one car one time can result in a ticket for no insurance, no inspection, expired tags, no license ... and running a stop sign, where the cyclist is only eligible for the latter. I wonder if that's part of the difference -- after all, I know a significant number of moving violations also come with something else -- expired tags or inspection or no insurance being the most common -- but I don't know the exact percentage. I
Compared to what?
Cars outnumber cyclists about 50:1 in this town (the cyclist modal share is 2% here lately according to the city), so it shouldn't surprise you that there's more speeding tickets than cyclist tickets. What was the point of that ("obvious exaggeration") statistic anyways?
Also note that the 240:1 figure was assuming that the national average was 4x Austin (which was a wild ass guess) -- if 30% of the tickets that APD writes in Austin are for speeding (another wild ass guess, but if we include tickets for things like inspection and tags, and I suspect that APD does when they count their tickets, I suspect that the percentage is probably less than that) then the Austin figure is 60:1.
And yet you have your citation. If you don't like it, take it up with Acevedo. As you said, it's a college town, and we have more cyclists than most other cities for that and perhaps other reasons.
Given the 2% and 0.5% figures ... it does say that motorists get cited 4x as often as cyclists here, if we take the modal share at face value. Though I wonder if that also includes things that cyclists never get cited for like license/registration/inspection/insurance. Pulling over one car one time can result in a ticket for no insurance, no inspection, expired tags, no license ... and running a stop sign, where the cyclist is only eligible for the latter. I wonder if that's part of the difference -- after all, I know a significant number of moving violations also come with something else -- expired tags or inspection or no insurance being the most common -- but I don't know the exact percentage. I
#163
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
njkay
Actually I like to read the results of old threads. Threads are posted when things happen such as a cyclist getting a ticket they shouldnt have. We are then left hanging as to the out come. Court cases take a long time unfortunately.
The bottom line here is I like to hear the final outcome.
Actually I like to read the results of old threads. Threads are posted when things happen such as a cyclist getting a ticket they shouldnt have. We are then left hanging as to the out come. Court cases take a long time unfortunately.
The bottom line here is I like to hear the final outcome.
#164
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4260 Post(s)
Liked 1,364 Times
in
945 Posts
It's still open, isn't it? What have you got against others continuing a discussion? If it bugs you, then just ignore it.
And I mildly take exception to the characterization that I might be a felon. That was uncalled for. I am a pro musician, and I travel a lot, mostly to places without an internet connection, or the time to use one. So when I get some time off, it takes me a bit to catch up. As far as I know, there is no law against that.
And I mildly take exception to the characterization that I might be a felon. That was uncalled for. I am a pro musician, and I travel a lot, mostly to places without an internet connection, or the time to use one. So when I get some time off, it takes me a bit to catch up. As far as I know, there is no law against that.
And, even being a member since 2008, you didn't know the answer to this question?
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...t-threads.html
People usually have no idea that it's a resurrected old thread.
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-22-14 at 09:26 AM.
#165
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4260 Post(s)
Liked 1,364 Times
in
945 Posts
Cars outnumber cyclists about 50:1 in this town (the cyclist modal share is 2% here lately according to the city), so it shouldn't surprise you that there's more speeding tickets than cyclist tickets.
Your "200 times more" statistic actually makes my case.
Maybe, you should go back and read what I replied to in this old thread.
#166
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4260 Post(s)
Liked 1,364 Times
in
945 Posts
njkay
Actually I like to read the results of old threads. Threads are posted when things happen such as a cyclist getting a ticket they shouldnt have. We are then left hanging as to the out come. Court cases take a long time unfortunately.
The bottom line here is I like to hear the final outcome.
Actually I like to read the results of old threads. Threads are posted when things happen such as a cyclist getting a ticket they shouldnt have. We are then left hanging as to the out come. Court cases take a long time unfortunately.
The bottom line here is I like to hear the final outcome.
#167
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,040
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro, Strada
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
My statistic was 60:1, and that was to be compared directly to your 10,000:1 figure except that it only covers one specific area where I had concrete data available. (I don't have specific data on what percentage of tickets APD writes are for speeding, however -- that part was an estimate. and I suspect it was on the high side.)
The 240:1 (not 200:1, by the way) was given as a possiblity, but not supported by statistics. You're welcome to support it on your own, however.
You estimate 10,000, I calculate 60, and then you expected the 60?
It seems that you think that 1) motorists greatly outnumber cyclists (true -- here the ratio is 50:1, in some other places it's 100:1 or higher), and 2) police almost never cite cyclists (maybe where you live, but here it's not true.) That's the only way to come up with a ratio in the thousands.
Yes, police write more tickets for speeding (mostly to drivers of motor vehicles, though occasionally a cyclist gets one) than they write to cyclists. But the ratio must be somewhere around 100:1 rather than 10,000:1.
Police write enough tickets to cyclists that they should have at least a passing familiarity with the relevant laws, or should know to look up the laws when needed.
The 240:1 (not 200:1, by the way) was given as a possiblity, but not supported by statistics. You're welcome to support it on your own, however.
It doesn't surprise me at all. The "10,000" comment makes it very clear that I expected it.
It seems that you think that 1) motorists greatly outnumber cyclists (true -- here the ratio is 50:1, in some other places it's 100:1 or higher), and 2) police almost never cite cyclists (maybe where you live, but here it's not true.) That's the only way to come up with a ratio in the thousands.
Yes, police write more tickets for speeding (mostly to drivers of motor vehicles, though occasionally a cyclist gets one) than they write to cyclists. But the ratio must be somewhere around 100:1 rather than 10,000:1.
Police write enough tickets to cyclists that they should have at least a passing familiarity with the relevant laws, or should know to look up the laws when needed.
Last edited by dougmc; 07-22-14 at 10:41 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Ninety5rpm
Advocacy & Safety
18
11-28-17 11:52 AM