chipcom 

Indeed, since you seem to be abusing Godwin's Law by invoking it where it isn't applicable.

tomcryar

It's been that way for along time---You're either for wearing a helmet (bicycling or motorcycling) or you're not. Very. very few people I've talked to are in the middle. And, both sides can, and do, present a good argument. It boils down to personal choice. If you can get enough people behind you to change the laws (either for or against) then do it. If not, then let people make up their own minds. This will always be an issue for some people. I'd rather like to see it go away.

crtreedude 

Perhaps what bothers me most about the helmet debate (besides people inferring that I have already whacked my head for not wearing one) is that it is merely a symptom of a overall attitude in society. Simple put, it is this, "It is better safe than sorry."

On the surface, this seems like such a good idea - but in reality, it is consuming huge amounts of resources. I can remember a time when a lawnmower was just a lawnmower and you were required to have enough brains not to put your hands under them when running (nor run over your own foot) - but them the "safety first!" crowd decided that we needed all sorts of stuff to stop the rare accident.

Their cry seems so reasonable "But, if it saves one life!" Well, this over all attitude is creating a generation of kids who are out of shape and afraid to go outside play. The law of unintended consequences kicks in, because people are so wrapped in bubble wrap, they don't develop the physical skills necessary to survive.

Let me give an example - yesterday I was riding a horse to check out the fincas. The surface was pretty slick as usually this time of year and Macon (our big grey horse) being the clumsy clod his is, slipped and went down - with me on him.

Well, I don't wear anything special when I am riding a horse. No helmet, no fancy boots, nothing. What I do is pay attention and not assume a horse will stay upright. As he was falling, I stepped out of the stirrup on that side and stood up and nearly ended up on my feet with him on the ground. (and then slipped in mud and fell down myself to the amusement of all ) It looked very graceful until the part of slipping in the mud myself...

What is the point? I ride a horse expecting that some day I will fall. That means my feet aren't stuck in the stirrups because when it is time to leave, it is time to leave! The same thing is true for a bike, I ride it in such a way EXPECTING to fall. It rarely happens, but when it does, I am ready. Unfortunately, too many people in the USA do not have any ability to react to a situation like this. They would just fall with the horse and probably end up with a broken leg at least, and perhaps have the horse roll on them - which can kill you.

But with a horse and with a bike I am not terribly crazy. I ride well within my abilities. The core problem is that we are raising a generation that thinks that there should be a device that no matter what they do, they won't get hurt. Well, the most important safety device is between your ears. Any type of padding is a poor substitute for not getting in dangerous situations and when you are in a situation, keeping your head. Having the physical conditioning to react is important too - and you don't get that except to live life.

I live in a third world nation - I ride horses in terrain that causes experienced riders from up there to break out in cold sweats (true), I have awoken to a fer-de-lance (25th most dangerous snake in the world) in my bedroom! (with my wife telling me to wake up) but I will tell you, I can not believe the speeds that the helmeted crowd are willing to go with a bike - believing if they crash, they will be okay.

Riding a bike is not safe, it is REASONABLY safe. Putting a helmet on your head statistically does not change that fact. Using your brain while you ride will do a lot more for you.

closetbiker

+1

dynodonn 

Since I'm human, I do make mistakes, but I do my best to minimize my mistakes( only 2 crashes on my bike in 15 years). Even with a brain between my ears, and being in good physical shape with fairly decent reaction abilities, sometime my mistakes can exeed my abilities. I consider myself fortunate to have been wearing a helmet in my last fall off the bike, which I feel lessened the impact to my head than if I had not been wearing one. I will continue ride my bike at the same speeds that I always have, since they are not anywhere near the speeds I attained while riding a motorcycle. My mistake is now logged into my cranial library, along with the others.

closetbiker

most people do go with their own, personal anecdotal experiences, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's part of being a human, but it's also good to try and get a hold of what the real probabilities are so you could be most effective in being better off.

fact is, the chances of you needing a helmet in a fall probably runs the same in many things we do, yet people only take the precaution of wearing one in the areas that impressions have been made to lead someone to believe there a greater risk in that area than another.

Bell has done such an extensive job at this that it's led people away from cycling as much as they've managed to get people to wear a helmet, and also managed the trick of having people not only avoid seeing a problem in context, but inadvertently lead people away from a far more effective way to avoid injury such as fall prevention and that's just not good for anyone.

cadillacmike68

What really frosts my a $ $ is riding groups / clubs that insist / require you to wear a helmet on their "club" rides. I reallly can't stand others telling me what to do or not do or wear or not wear. Here in Florida, even Motorcycle riders are not required to wear a helmet - which i think will help in further strenghtening the gene pool over time, and only kids under 16 are required by state law to ride a bicycle with a helmet. Their non-logic that they try to use to rationalize their attempts at forcing their beliefs on others are laughable - until they start getting traction. And the helmets themselves are laughable. I'd rather use an old leather job than one of those things.

These clubs / groups are just not going to get any of my dues money that's all there is to it. I'm not using one. I've spilled / crashed numerous times and know how to get out from under the bike in a manner other than head first.

Motorcycles are another matter: at the speeds those things go, especially with those-called crotch rockets where you are catapulted head first in a crash, you want to live -perhaps with a broken neck - you'll wear a helmet. But, as has already been stated, there are numerous craches circumstances where death is the outcome helmet or no helmet.

cadillacmike68

I can't believe that this BBS changed my a $ $ (without the spaces) to a bunch of asterisks !!!

tallard

Well, that's because technically it IS an ESSE hombre! Yep, people who run these things have seen that trick before, don't you use the same strategy to ban spam from your email, I do...

closetbiker

I see didn't anything in the post about liability insurance.

I beleive I'm right (but correct me if I'm wrong) if I say personal liability insurance pays out against claims where the insured is personally liable for damages that relate directly from the insureds actions.

I would think wearing a helmet would have little to do with this, but would involve personal injury to the rider himself or (much more likely) if the rider was to claim the organization was partly to blame for not insisting on protection of the participants resulting in injuries. That may be the liability in question.

Some insurers require organizers to require helmets based on some (faulty) studies that show (incorrectly) that helmets reduce head injuries. If organizers run an event and allow riders without helmets and there is a head injury, the insurers will not take the risk of possible payout on a claim and refuse to cover the event.

Insurers are in the business of collecting premiums and denying payouts for any reason (even made up ones)

Speedo

You are, of course, free to form your own "helmets optional" club. Seriously, you might uncover some pent up need for it.

Speedo

stupidcar

i'd really like a helmet, but i refuse to buy one of those newfangled sporty helmets. why is it so difficult to find a nice, round, old-fashioned bicycle helmet?

tomg

i have been saved from traumatic head injury (TBI) or.. by my helmet.

i have been head-injured (TBI) while not wearing a safety-belt (cognitive recovery 85% but rehab sucks)

helmets and safety-belts can SAVE LIVES (and a lot of rehab hassle).

I just put it on, click it. a no-brainer!

tallard

Sorry, but ick, I don't get cycling group rides. In the same vein, I dislike horse group riding. I was raised to ride free, group riding just doesn't fit into that.

That's why I can't even imagine a non helmet wearer starting one of those groups, would just seem anticlimatic. But that's just me...

closetbiker

yup, insurance companies will do anything (even on unfounded, illegal and/or immoral grounds) to deny claims. helmet requirements are a good example.

John E

My position regarding helmets seems to be pretty mainstream among serious, experienced cyclists:

1) I choose to wear a helmet. I believe it can reduce the severity of brain and/or head injury under some scenarios, and that it is more likely to do good than harm.
2) I believe a helmet is particularly effective in a low-speed fall against a curb, which is actually not such a rare occurrence. I admit to some bias because I lost a valued friend and mentor 35 years ago to such a crash.
3) I oppose mandatory helmet laws for adults.
4) I do not ride any less cautiously with a helmet than I would without, i.e., I do not exercise risk compensation. Anyone who feels invincible with a helmet should definitely not wear one.

tallard

Oh I certainly will not define it as I'm not the one who used it in the first place. What the previous poster said was he thought it odd how so many people are posting so many anecdotes about how they crashed and cracked their helmet several times in their lives...
I was agreeing with THAT poster on the oddity of their collision rate.

Anyone not constantly banging their head.....

tallard

May I ask in which city or state you've actively lobbied against mandatory helmet laws?
Thank you for your efforts...

Blue Order

Like the guy who hasn't been on his bicycle since the age of 10?

Blue Order

I've never had a helmet on when I've had a bonk on the head-- or if I did have it on when I fell, it did its job, because I didn't feel a bonk on the head when I went down.

I have hit my helmetless head hard on concrete in my foolish youth-- a feeling I never want to experience again. I have had my helmetless head rung like a bell when it hit my rollbar hard-- another feeling I never want to experience again.

I'll wear my helmet when I ride, thanks.

Blue Order

Let's see... Fewer automobiles in city cores, slower cycling speeds, more experienced riders... And probably other factors that I couldn't come up with in the last five seconds.

tallard

How can they be middle aged BF members, banging their head so often while cycling with helmets on, spending time on this forum AND not have cycled since age 10? I guess you're calling these members liars? Maybe you should hit the preview button before submitting. That would be true in all areas of life...

Blue Order

Your definition of a "serious cyclist" is "anyone not constantly banging their head." That would include somebody who hasn't been on a bicycle since the age of ten, but would not include the Portland messenger with 20 concussions to his name.

Maybe you should hit the preview button before submitting.

stevesurf

Let me tell you, I feel like wearing my Giro Atmos all the time around my friend. I was loading my bike into his car and he starts closing the hatch and clunk - closes it right on my head!!!

I had my helmet on, fortunately and it had a nice dent in it; better it than my head.

Really lightweight helmets are the best way to survive - the trick is to just leave it on all the time - you can't know when the unexpected will happen.

closetbiker

so the way to lower injury rates would be have drivers and riders drive and ride with more responsiblity?