corrado33

I've been helping to fix and tear down bikes lately and I've had to try to learn to make the distinction between short pull and long pull brake levers.

Besides the obvious "one pulls longer than the other" what's the easiest way I can distinguish between the two types, particularly when they are off of the bike? I haven't been able to find a solid answer yet unfortunately.

I have noticed that one type over the other more often has a spring to pull the brake lever back, where the other relies on the spring action of the brake itself. But that's just a casual observation, and not true all of the time.

Bill Kapaun

Measure the distance between the pivot and the cable anchor.

corrado33

Is there a range that one would have over the other? Obviously long pull will have a large distance, but are there general #s I can go by?

Bill Kapaun

Measure a couple types and see for yourself.

Andrew R Stewart 

Bill likely is old enough to remember the Frank Berto articles in Bike World and Bicycling mags that did this type of component documenting. There were caliper/lever model combos that would end up with large differences in the leverage factors. Now that no one does this and publish the findings in other then small blogs/web sites it's left to us to find out for our selves. Andy.

FBinNY 

The difference between so-called long pull and short pull brake levers isn't digital. There's a spectrum, with levers tending to cluster at either end.

Brake makers try to balance total leverage vs. shoe travel (how far they open). There are two places where the leverage is determined; the caliper itself, and the lever, and the makers match these to produce desired result. So long pull levers pull more cable (lower leverage) and are best matched with high leverage calipers, and the opposite for short pull levers.

Historically most brake designs called for levers within a narrow band of leverage and the same levers would work with both caliper and canti brakes. But modern V-brakes have very different geometry and need levers that pull cable than was the historic norm, hence the two basic types today.

In any case, it's easy to determine how much cable a lever will pull. It's directly proportional to the distance from the lever pivot to the cable anchor.

HillRider

I can give you one numerical example as a start. These measurements are of Tektro road levers and the distances between the cable anchor and the lever pivot are:

Tektro R200 (caliper, cantilever and road mechanical disc brakes) 23 mm
Tektro RL520 (V-brake and MTB mechanical disc brakes) 35 mm

So for these particular levers the "long pull" cable amount is about 150% of the "short pull" models. Other makes will vary a bit but this is a good starting point.

dabac

OI've posted numbers of mine here years ago. I think the short pulls I had avaliable to measure on were 28 mm, and my long pulls 35 or more. Then a pair of Codas straddling the difference at 32 mm.

mossybikes

Long pull is typically around 35mm and short pull 25mm. Measure from the centre of the bolt that the lever pivots on to the centre of the cable head. Most levers clearly fit at either end of that range.

HillRider

You realize you've answered a question posed almost 7 years ago? Zombie thread.

mossybikes

I felt that the previous posters we're unnecessarily condescending--like you they failed to add useful information to the dialogue.

My answer is succinct and accurate. Hopefully it will support future wrenches in learning this simple and important difference.

le mans

News to me.

When I needed to use brake levers on a flat bar for side pull brakes, I took them off scrap bikes that were already set up for that.


Now I know what to look for

dedhed

I see you're new here. You should probably get used to the above in posts, because it's part of playing the game here. More so in some sub forums than others.

were, not we're

Andrew R Stewart 

Being one of those who did reply to this thread way back when I took the above as a reason to review what was said and how I felt the posts were meant. I have to say I don't agree with mossybikes in describing the posts as having a lack of advice or being condescending. Of the 6 reply posts from others 3 have numbers/dimensions, 1 offers some history and 2 were the best teacher's reply (measure it yourself). Note that none of these posts had any personal insults or personality assumptions. Andy

79pmooney

To add my experience to this - I went to long pull levers unintentionally when I bought a pair of used levers for the huge hoods I could wrap all my fingers under. Handles for out of the saddle climbing on the fix gear of my photo. Put Shimano dual pivot calipers n the bike. (Bought used and I still don't know what model.) First ride - love these handles! And braking is rather different. No modulation in the lever handle, but lots in the effect of hand squeeze force. Well, 6 months later I rode the bike up and down McKenzie Pass. Up on a 42-23. Down on a 12 tooth. That was a blast! Until I came to a blind corner that was far tighter. Grabbed two fistfuls of brake hard like my life depended on it. (No way my pedal was making that corner!) And to my surprise, nothing happened; except I slowed down a whole bunch and made the corner easily. No skidding. And I was sold. OK, braking from the tops is harder and less effective. But from the drops? Real stoppers using all the tires had to offer. Far better than any dual pivots and regular levers I'd ever ridden. More like an old Mafac setup except instead of modulating lever travel, I was now modulating lever pressure.

I've changed out that first V-brake lever set for modern Tekro (much better thought out and easier to work on) and put them on my other dual pivot bike and my canti bike. Only bikes with regular levers are my two Mafac bikes. This does mean that I ride more often in the drops, especially in traffic or marginal conditions. Much like I was told to by my club's veterans when I started racing; long before the '00s love of life on brifters started. (This also means "throwback thinking" re: braking with other riders behind me. When I raced my Grand Compe equipped Fuji in the '70s I kept in mind the Campy riders behind me (that was virtually everybody) didn't have my stopping power.)

I love good stopping power. And the secret isn't braking force, it is control.

And to identifying which is which, regular pull vs long pull - not perfect, but the clues are - super long hoods; probably long pull. Squeeze thew laver and look in. Cable comes to the lever top? Long pull. You have to reach in a bit to install that new cable end - short pull. And as said above, it's a range, not a hard and fast rule.
\
Edit: I just wish cars were so simple. My Prius would be a much better stopper with me driving if I would swap out the brake pedal for long-pull. I learned to drive in a Willys Jeep. First car a '71 VW bus. The Prius braking is so sensitive I should be driving barefoot.

grizzly59

I have some of these levers, I think the quality is great, price is right, and the leverage is adjustable from short to long as well as the length of pull. 2 armadillos with 1 brick.

Tektro Eclipse MT2.1 Levers
https://www.amazon.com/Tektro-Eclips.../dp/B004CS7JAU

Avid Speed Dial 7 Brake Levers
https://planetcyclery.com/avid-speed...SABEgJcLvD_BwE

andrewclaus

I use a simple "rule of thumb." Place your thumb between the pivot and the cable. If the radius is about the width of your thumb, it's short pull. If you can easily see the pivot and cable around your thumb, it's long pull. As mentioned years ago, it's best to compare samples first.

Bill Kapaun

Pretty judgemental for someone making their first post.
Ignore list.
I have a lot more experience being judgemental.

shortnugly

Glad I ran across this thread.
Grizzly59 , your post was the most informative.
Good info and to the point.

hokiefyd 

Do those Tektro Eclipse levers have a full metal/alloy body? They look like a great value.

rccardr 

Must admit that when I read the first few answers to the original post, I did wince a bit. Sometimes I think we can do better.

Digger Goreman

Glad it was resurrected. Gained a grain of knowledge.

grizzly59

mine are all aluminum, here’s the link-

https://www.tektro.com/products.php?p=68

sweeks

I bought a set of Shimano SORA levers to be used with center-pull brakes (so, short-pull). They were $16. When I received them, I noticed that they (like the levers in grizzly59's post ^^) were adjustable for either short or long pull.

Looking at my new levers, I find that this "Rule of Thumb" is spot-on.

A Shimano SORA brake lever.



A close-up of the SORA brake lever. The pivot is the black circle at the top. The cable attaches to the silver fitting, which can be moved farther from the pivot to the hole near the bottom of this image.

hokiefyd 

Shimano's definition of long pull is really long. The ones I have from them have a >40mm measurement between the cable anchor and the pivot. This applies to V-brake only (non adjustable) levers and the convertible levers as pictured above. Avid FR-5 levers (marketed as long pull) are about 32mm. I prefer the shorter pull radius of the Avid long pull vs. Shimano long pull for the brakes I use.