Maybe I'm having a massive moment of dumb here, but I've never had a wheel build give me this much trouble before. All the wheels I've built in the past have been 3x on both sides, with symmetrically sized hub flanges, and rims with clearly visible spoke hole offsets, and they've gone together with minimal difficulty.

Right now, I'm in the process of building up a 28x1-1/2" wheel around an early DynoHub for my 1937 Raleigh. In an effort to maintain some sense of historical accuracy, I made the decision to use the same spoke lengths for both sides, using a 3x pattern with the large flange and a 2x pattern with the small flange. The rim's spoke holes all look like they're perfectly centered, with no discernable offset. I found a set of instructions printed by Raleigh, which I decided to follow, again in an effort to maintain some historical accuracy.

The main problem I'm having is this: I'm used to being able to very easily have the wheel laced so that the spokes around the valve hole point away from the hole, but I can't seem to make that work with this wheel. Is this just an impossibility with using these mixed lacing patterns?

This is no different with 3x/2x than with 3x/3x, except that it's harder to know which pair of spokes will come to the adjacent rim holes on either side of the valve.

If the flanges both have plain round spoke holes, you can lace the smaller flange first so the cross is to the side of the valve, then the second accordingly. However many of these hubs have the -O- spoke holes on the smaller flange, and the spokes have to pull away from center. That means you have know in advance where they'll end up.

So think as you read the following and get is straight in your head before starting. In normal 3x/3x, the spoke starting 1/2 hole to the left in the hub will end up 1 hole to the left in the rim. Same is true with 2x/2x. But 3x spokes start out 2 holes farther apart than 2x, or 1 hole farther over on each side. So the spoke on the larger flange will not start and end on the same side of it's adjacent mate on the smaller. Instead the spoke starting 1/2 hole to the right will end 1 hole to the left in the rim.

That gives you the pairing for the two spokes that wind to the left and end at the 1st two holes to the right of the rim.

If you don't get it reading, draw a quick sketch of a few spokes and it should gel.

There have been Lg flange NDS & Small Flange DS rear hubs Made .. so as to use the same spoke length, On both sides



and as I have done a Small NDS and large drive side .. Campag made these in the 70s. both flanges a standard diameter , Just mixed on the same Hub

I laced small 4X large 3X. 18/18 of them.

I'm not sure whether I should be happy to know that it's possible, or more frustrated because I've tried and re-tried it so many times and still never gotten it right (and then I don't see it until I'm nearly done). I thought I had the solution on the last round, but apparently not.

Any tips for dealing with the invisibility of the spoke hole offsets in the rim? It's a used rim, and of course I didn't pay attention to the way it was laced with the original symmetrical hub.

Find a flexible straight edge, like a piece of plastic or cardboard. Lay it on the inside of the rim spanning any three spokes. This will mane any offset obvious. If the holes are not offset on the rim's hub side, they may be anyway, and you'll know because they're not lined up on the tire side. Of the offset is on the tire side, and not on the hub side (many aero rims) keep in mind that the hole offset to the left is actually pointing to the right side of the hub.

If you can't find offset on either the tire or hub side, then there is none, and you can lace any way you want.

The rest is simply about counting. If you still can't get it, lace strong thread through the rim and hub's large flange to form 4 radial spokes to keep it in place with respect to the rim and pull it tight. Then lace the smaller flange (both directions) and tighten enough that the spoke heads can't fall out. Thread a single spoke into a rim hole, attach a nipple and thread to normal thread depth, wind in the right direction and see which hub hole it lines up to (according to length). That tells you the hole pairings, and it's only a question of head in vs head out. Now you can load the rest of the spokes and continue.

Another trick for lacing -O- hole hubs is to find small screws or wooden cones to fill the central hole as you attach spokes so they can't fall back out. The very first time I laced one of these many moons ago, I put the pair of spokes in, and kept them there with a crew and nut. (of course this was AFTER wasting plenty of time struggling with spokes which refused to stay out as I tried to lace the wheel. This method may solve your problem by allowing you to lace the small flange completely before putting any spokes in the large.

It turns out that the last attempt before posting this thread was actually correct, and I just hadn't put my first spoke on the small flange into the right hole on the rim :facepalm:

If only I also had the DynoHub logo lined up with the valve stem....but I've fought with this for too long to want to go back and try again, so I'll just deal

If the spoke holes are drilled at an angle, then I'll hang a spoke & nipple in the hole, and see the preferred way for it to hang. FB's straight edge method to see if they're drilled side to side. Most of my rims have double walled, so if should be office if the outer holes are offset.

Do you have the wheel laced now, but in the wrong place?

I haven't tried a 2x/3x lacing. Sounds interesting. But here is how I would approach it.



My Approach:

• Lace up one side (3X side), every 4[SUP]th[/SUP] hole along the rim, starting at the valve hole. All spokes should be either outbound or inbound. It doesn't make much difference. One theory is the pulling side should be inbound, I think, so it tends to pull spokes further away from the derailleur under load.
• Now, for the 2x side, start 1 hole further along the rim. Typically this should go to 1/2 hole past the previous spoke to the opposite flange on the hub. But, I believe with your 2x by 3x pattern, it should actually cross the 3x spoke, and go to 1/2 hole BEFORE the 3x side.
• Continue lacing around the wheel.
• Now, twist your hub, and do your cross pattern. In the case of my photo above, the hub would twist counter-clockwise, with the 2 spokes starting to the left of the valve hole, and ending up to the left side of the hub.