Hi all,

I have just bought some 26' Rhyno lite rims for my Surly long haul trucker as my old Alexrims have started to crack. I've never had to build a wheel up before so I'm a little unsure about what spokes and spoke size to use. I plan to use my old Shimano LX FH-T660 hub as it is still in good condition. The rims are 26' 36 hole rhyno lite. The spoke hole diameter is 4.32mm and I can apparently use 14g spokes. The erd is 549 and the hub spoke hole diameter is 2.5. I was looking at DT-Swiss alpine 3 spokes as I'm a heavy rider and carry a lot of gear for touring but I'm not sure if this is over the top or if I could go with something a little less heavy like the DT champion 2.34mm which is apparently good for e bikes and heavy loads. Any help on size and opinions on the type of spoke would be appreciated.

Thanks very much

I'd suggest building a rim that you won't be dependent on as a first time. Andy

Yes sorry I should have worded that a little better. I'm currently located in China so I'm just buying the parts online to make it a little cheaper and easier due to the language barrier. I'll have a bike shop build the wheel as I don't trust myself to do a good enough job yet.

If you're not breaking spokes, I don't see the point of using thicker ones. If anything, you may be emboldened to use too much tension with them... and crack the new rims.

Nice use.

the hole in the hub has to be bigger so the rolled to thread spoke end will pass thru It.

DT alpine is 13-15-14 thickest on the Hook end.

I just used 14 gage straight spokes on my Tour Bike wheels ..
Because I had a Lot of them , 88 .. 40 in the front, 48 in the rear.
and built from the shop Inventory (1985)



'/,

I use 14 gauge double butted spokes on my tourer. You could get by with 36 15-16-15 spokes as well.

Heavy rider here.

Butted spokes end up with stronger wheels than straight gauge spokes because butted spokes are more flexible in the middle which results in more spokes sharing the load. Butted spokes are not individually stronger than straight gauge spokes of comparable quality for example Wheelsmith DB14 vs Wheelsmith SS14.

Because of this sharing of the load, double butted spokes require less tension for a given wheel strength, resulting in reduced risk of rim and.or hub cracking.

On the rear, if you are using a multi-speed cassette (vs an IGH), the NDS spoke tension force is 60% to 70% of the DS spoke tension force. For the most reliable wheel build, it makes sense for the tensile stress (force divided by cross sectional area) to be as close to equal for all of the spokes. Which leads to using thinner spokes on the NDS. I have had very good results with Wheelsmith DB14 on the DS and DB15 on the NDS. For the NDS Wheelsmith XL14 would probably also work well with DB14 on the DS; but XL14 spokes are 2X the price of DB15 (on eBay).

I hear this so much that it seems to be gospel. I have searched for some objective data that show this to be true but have not yet seen any. I do find a lot of theory behind why it should be so, but nothing empirical. I have 40 year old wheels with single gauge spokes that are still rolling along fine.

Any leads would be welcome. Curiosity has to be satisfied.

Apologies to the OP for the hijack. Here's my comment - the DT 14/15/13 spokes would work well but you may save some money with their 14/15/14s, which I typically use. Any shop that can build good wheels can figure out the length, but if you want to do it, there are plenty of online calculator tools.

I have WH13 -14 spokes on my Dyad rims and heavy XL SA hubs. Bike + me is 243 on an easy day and 290 on tour. Nothing is going to stop these wheels. These spokes are hard to get, Peter White won't ship them anymore, because he effed my order twice, doh. OTOH My Rohloff ended up 32H and plain 14g, they really don't allow 13g. It seems solid also.

With the OP having heavy rims and bike, plain 14g make NO sense. Especially with any derailler. IMO... One heavy tour BF guy has busted 4 wheels, over 60,000 miles of trips.

My take on why butted spoked wheels can last longer is about spoke stretch, not sharing their loads. With a spoke that stretches more for the same tension it takes a larger displacement to cause the spoke to become slack and either have more "paper clip bending" or nipple loosening going on. Andy.

longrodehome, For my next set of wheels on my primary touring bike I plan to use the AlpineIII spokes. IMHO they're a good choice for a bike that carries a load that can't 'ride light' over choppy road conditions. The main advantage in my mind over a standard 14-15-14 DB spoke is that they fill the hub's spoke hole more fully.

Straight gauge spokes have proven to be acceptable for decades and both of my touring bikes use them, one 14 gauge, the other 15 gauge, the 15 gauge spokes are on a very high mileage bike that I now use as a beater, FWIW. In general, I've just had less fuss when using DB spokes on my high mileage roadies and I think it's due to the elasticity.

Brad

Butted vs straight gauge has a very small impact on any immediately measureable type of performance.
It's mostly about increased life/resistance to fatigue.
Things like that, there's no functional difference between using stuff that's "good enough" or stuff that's "better".
It's like if you're going for a drive in a car. Having more fuel than needed for there-and-back won't be of any use for that particular ride.
It's perfectly possible to build wheels that are good enough for a lot of riders and users with straight gauge spokes.
Your 40-year olds aren't an entirely fair comparison.
The rear probably has a far less lopsided spoke tension balance than many of the current designs, making it easier to keep NDS tension high enough to avoid fatigue.

Point taken. Although I typically build with DB spokes, I will use straight gauge when I don't care about weight (and I can save some money). Some folks are positively rabid about avoiding straight gauge at all costs, that it makes you want to dig into the underlying reasons for this fervor.

The answer to that is more likely found in the realm of psychology than in the realm of technology.

It's people missing the point between functionally better and theoretically better.
Or wanting what's theoretically better anyhow, even if there is no useful benefit from it.
I tried to describe that with the "fuel left" comparison.
It's easy to show that a butted spoke will last longer under some conditions of load cycling. Making it theoretically better. And desirable to many.
But that longer life isn't a useful advantage unless your type of riding creates those kinds of load cycling or mileages where fatigue begins to occur.
I'm convinced that if someone were to make a fully waterproof - as in dive-certified, not rain proof - bike computer, some people would gladly buy it on the grounds of being better.

Andy that is why they share the load better.

It is about how close to the limits your system (bike) is. With my system (weight, riding style, etc) I found that I am very close to the limits and had multiple failures of straight gauge spokes. Currently, my commuter wheels are supporting over 400lbs, on fair (not great, not terrible) roads and paths.

It's pretty simple-
IF you are going to build a wheel, a few pennies more/spoke is pretty minor, especially if using more expensive hubs & rims. Why NOT make it "theoretically better"?

I wasn't arguing for or against a particular spoke, just asking if anyone know of a source of objective data. My own empirical experience is irrelevant, as is that of most here. We've all broken spokes, but none of us have broken enough spokes for our opinions to be valid. I'm a curious fellow and it drives me nuts if I can't get enough info to understand the why.

Back to the OP. I've reviewed the info about those 14/15/13 spokes and I like them a lot. I think I will use them for my next wheel build.

Thanks for all the comments and advice everyone!

Stronger vs. strong enough. If you aren't breaking spokes why do you think that you need stronger?