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Easton X4 Hub Drive Ring Slips

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Easton X4 Hub Drive Ring Slips

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Old 04-24-18, 07:45 AM
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cbulloch
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Easton X4 Hub Drive Ring Slips

I have a set of Easton Vice XLT wheels with X4 hubs which are out of warranty. I got them used and when took off the free hub and checked them out everything looked good. I added some Phil's Tenacious Oil on the pawls and buttoned everything up. When I mounted the cassette I noticed the free hub would slip when tightening the cassette lock ring. So when applying force in the direction of chain travel the free hub moves some. I put it on the bike and confirmed the pedals could be turned and the wheel would not. It is not like the pawls aren't engaged it takes a decent amount of force to move it. I took it to my local shop and they confirmed that the drive ring, where the pawls engage slips inside the hub shell. I talked to the guy who had them before and he did not have this problem. He returned my money for the rear and I bought another Vice XLT rear I found on eBay to replace it. I thought, what luck i can keep the matching set. I got that new/used rear wheel and did the exact same set up. Took off the free hub, checked the bearings for grease, put some tenacious oil on the pawls, and buttoned it back up. It has the exact same problem. I was convinced something happened to the first one but having a second one do the exact same thing really surprised me. I have been searching everywhere but haven't run across any post about a similar issue. The X4 hub seems to be a pretty good hub and I am shocked that I would find two wheels that have the same issue and not find others posting about it.

Has anyone heard of this issue or something similar before? The drive ring slips when force is applied. How can a hub design allow this to happen? Any thoughts on how to address it besides throwing away two wheels?
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Old 04-24-18, 08:17 AM
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https://www.eastoncycling.com/media/...ly_X4_Rear.pdf

Judging from the schematic, this is a 3 pawl setup with a channel that contains a wire acting as a spring.

1. Make sure the split in the wire is in the channel BETWEEN two pawls - not on a pawl.
1a. Make sure the wire behaves like a retainer / snap-in ring - clings upon release into the channel. DON'T BREAK THAT WIRE!!!
2. Use some light oil (Triflow) and place a drop or two at each pawl pivot location.
3. Press each one down and release. Work 'em.

- They should pop back up 100% on their own - no assistance - just like an extractor on a firearm should close 100% on its own when activated.


Entire assembly requires a thin film of light grease - for example Campagnolo grease - grease that is free to spread, move - no excessive stickiness.

Phil Tenascious oil is very sticky . . . for example when Phil Tenascious oil gets on the bottom of the die body of my Kowa spoke machine, it is "sticky" enough to pull the rubber stop grommet right off its post at the bottom of the machine. So I use Triflow for dies, and Phil for the backside bearings.


=8-|
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Old 04-24-18, 08:39 AM
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The pawls are set up correctly and not sticking. I've confirmed that you can physically turn the drive ring inside the hub shell when pushing on it with a pick. The pawls engage and spin the drive ring which should not move.
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Old 04-24-18, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cbulloch View Post
The pawls are set up correctly and not sticking. I've confirmed that you can physically turn the drive ring inside the hub shell when pushing on it with a pick. The pawls engage and spin the drive ring which should not move.
1. Assuming the drive ring was removable and removed, did it have a certain orientation?

(A DT Swiss 350 ratchet ring goes in one way only....one side only.)

2. Begs the following as well . . . was it supposed to be removed? The schematic I linked doesn't appear to show a drive ring as a removable part. . .

Just in case, going to blow it up really big and look again...

=8-P
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Old 04-24-18, 09:18 AM
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The schematic, assuming it's the correct one - does not show a "drive ring" as a removable part.

=8-P
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Old 04-24-18, 09:25 AM
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I did not remove the drive ring. It seems to be a separate part pressed into the hub shell but it moving doesn't make sense. My LBS found with a good bit of force with a pick you could spin the ring. This was the how we confirmed it wasn't a pawl or free hub issue. I was able to do the same on the "new" wheel. What is not clear is how it is suppose to be secured in place and not rotate.
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Old 04-24-18, 09:42 AM
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I'm beginning to think the ring is dependent upon proper reassembly of the entire axle assembly and freehub and end caps.

Study the schematic...

I broke apart a similar freehub setup - like most, the ring in the hub I'm looking is threaded in and locked as a result.

=8-)
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4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

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Old 04-24-18, 09:54 AM
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Not having gotten into this level of hub assembly before I assumed the ring was machined but obviously not. Since it is slipping I then assumed it was pressed in and somehow has come free. Being threaded makes more sense in terms of being able to securely lock the ring in the hub body. Is threaded typical? If this is threaded would be be standard threaded? With that shouldn't it spin some and eventually bottom out? I haven't spent time turning it a lot to see but it seems like it has spun more than enough to bottom out. This seems like a more plausible scenario but still wondering what got me here and how to fix it (if possible).
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Old 04-24-18, 09:57 AM
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To add, the only hub disassembly and reassembly I've done is to pop off the end caps (no tools needed), pulled the freehub off, and in reverse to put it back.
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Old 04-24-18, 10:09 AM
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Reason I keep pushing back in your direction, is that I find it hard to believe this would occur on two straight wheels that were working before disassembly.

(Unless the second seller was hiding something...)

Still looking stuff up in the meantime...

=8-(
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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

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Old 04-24-18, 10:42 AM
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Hub I took apart has a drive ring that has large teeth - but a thin base. It's clearly threaded in. It's about 6-8mm wide - double set of teeth for double pawl teeth.

I would think the X4 has a similar setup...

Stripped? Cracked and stripped? If so, haven't seen this before.

Did some research, most problems with the X4 / M1 has to due with the pawls not engaging all at once, causing the body to hit the drive ring teeth.

Supposedly fixed already...supposedly.

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5000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

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Old 04-25-18, 01:00 PM
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I wasn't able to respond yesterday because I went over my posting limit. The setup is similar to what you posted and probably most hubs. See the attached picture.

I called Easton and asked about the issue. They confirmed the drive ring is threaded in and if it is spinning then the threads are probably stripped. I am completely baffled on how I can get two wheels with the same issue that doesn't seem to happen very often. Bad luck I guess. At least based on what I've heard from you, mechanic friends, and the absolute zero internet threads about it happening (that I could find at least). So if this is true I have two junk wheels. Also, Easton's design is either crap or I happen to find two bad apple wheels somehow randomly. They are both out of warranty and because of cost aren't worth rebuilding. Pretty much trash at this point unfortunately.
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Old 04-25-18, 01:06 PM
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Don't trash those wheels yet...

I'm going to send and email to Chosen and see if they have any they can send to me in the mail.

Your freehub is the same as mine - therefore I think it's safe to assume the inner diameter of the rings will be the same. Outer diameter..that's a guess...

=8-|

But don't get your hopes up - cause for all we know the thread on the shell and the ring are stripped.
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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 04-25-18, 04:01 PM
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Thanks for looking into it. Long shot I would say but worth a try. If one isn稚 stripped only my guess is the hub. I assume the drive ring is harder material to deal with the wear. I知 struggling to figure out how to unthread the drive ring to check though without a special tool.
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Old 06-16-18, 06:19 PM
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Rear hub fail

Originally Posted by cbulloch View Post
I have a set of Easton Vice XLT wheels with X4 hubs which are out of warranty. I got them used and when took off the free hub and checked them out everything looked good. I added some Phil's Tenacious Oil on the pawls and buttoned everything up. When I mounted the cassette I noticed the free hub would slip when tightening the cassette lock ring. So when applying force in the direction of chain travel the free hub moves some. I put it on the bike and confirmed the pedals could be turned and the wheel would not. It is not like the pawls aren't engaged it takes a decent amount of force to move it. I took it to my local shop and they confirmed that the drive ring, where the pawls engage slips inside the hub shell. I talked to the guy who had them before and he did not have this problem. He returned my money for the rear and I bought another Vice XLT rear I found on eBay to replace it. I thought, what luck i can keep the matching set. I got that new/used rear wheel and did the exact same set up. Took off the free hub, checked the bearings for grease, put some tenacious oil on the pawls, and buttoned it back up. It has the exact same problem. I was convinced something happened to the first one but having a second one do the exact same thing really surprised me. I have been searching everywhere but haven't run across any post about a similar issue. The X4 hub seems to be a pretty good hub and I am shocked that I would find two wheels that have the same issue and not find others posting about it.

Has anyone heard of this issue or something similar before? The drive ring slips when force is applied. How can a hub design allow this to happen? Any thoughts on how to address it besides throwing away two wheels?
This happened to my rear wheel as well. After about 3 months of use I went to pedal up a hill and my cranks just started spinning. Took it to my LBS and they confirmed that the drive ring is slipping around the hub body. In also looking for answers as I don't want to just junk these wheels. I'm wondering if anyone has a solution? Do you know of a replacement hub? I've looked at a few 24 hole hubs but not sure about the flange sizing.
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Old 06-17-18, 08:09 AM
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I spoke with Easton support and the confirmed the drive ring is threaded and likely stripped. Sure it possible to get a new hub but for what I paid it wasn稚 worth it. I bought a new set of wheels.
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Old 06-17-18, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cbulloch View Post
I spoke with Easton support and the confirmed the drive ring is threaded and likely stripped. Sure it possible to get a new hub but for what I paid it wasn稚 worth it. I bought a new set of wheels.
I haven't been able to find a new X4 hub. Will any other aftermarket companies ie. DT swiss work?
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Old 06-18-18, 06:11 AM
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I am no wheel expert but any hub with the correct hole count could work.
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Old 08-15-18, 10:26 PM
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This just happened to my rear wheel (easton vice xlt) as well. Easton is not able to replace it and my LBS said it would be tough to find a new hub with the same flange and other dimensions. Has anyone been able to replace the hub without replacing spokes? Seems like a crappy product by Easton to be honest. This should not be happening, all Easton told me was that the wheel was out of warranty period so i知 SOL. Looks like I知 going to have to get a new wheel...
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Old 08-16-18, 05:09 AM
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I feel your pain. I have two of them sitting there. I agree it is a **** design and Easton should offer up some option. But they are covered by their warranty period.

I知 sorry you have the same problem but to be honest I知 glad to hear I知 not the only one. After having it happen on two wheels and not be able to find out anything about the issue I thought I just had some really ****ty luck. Sorry your in the club too.

I wound up buying a new set of Race Face Aeffect wheels for $219 off some online shop.
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Old 08-16-18, 08:01 PM
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I have no idea how these are "up close", but would RED Locktite work?
Or JB Weld?
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Old 08-19-18, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
I have no idea how these are "up close", but would RED Locktite work?
Or JB Weld?
Tried JB Weld. Worked for about 1 hour then failed again.
Note ow to all in this post Easton and Race face are 1 company. Don't buy from either of them since their products are ****.
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Old 08-20-18, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
I have no idea how these are "up close", but would RED Locktite work?
Or JB Weld?
Red loctite is a thread locker. There are high strength retaining compounds made by loctite that would have a better chance of working. I think 680 is one such product.
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