So over the past week I converted this mtb I just bought used from 2x10 to 1x10. I widened the cassette to a Sunrace 11-42, and gave the RD more clearance with a Goatlink10. Rear hub is Hope.

However it was EXTREMELY difficult to get the old cassette off, and to put the new one on. And I'm not talking about getting the locknut off, that was almost like it had been tightened by hand. I'm talking about getting the cassette off/on the hub splines.

First off, after loosening the locknut (like I said, not very tight), and grabbing the cassette, the whole freehub body came off! It was not really held on at all, the part inside/under the locknut that looks like it should hold it together, is not threaded, I don't see how it could hold it together unless it used to be press-fit and then came loose.

Then, I couldn't get the cassette off. I got the smallest, individual cogs off, but the spidered ones in the back were stuck hard. I ended up propping the cassette up off the ground, putting a piece of flat metal on the top of the freehub, and banging it out with a mallet. I had to whack it so hard, the pawls got knocked out and I had to put them back in!

Getting the new cassette on was similarly difficult. I had to lean on the cassette and 'walk' it down (push on the left, push on the right, push on the top, push on the bottom) until it finally got down there. I had to work one piece at a time. I also experimented with trying to punch it down by tapping it with a metal rod and hammer, as near the center/splines as possible.

Finally got it all on and screwed it down real hard (because I forgot the non-press-fit piece inside the locknut, I had to take it back off and back on again, needed a cheater bar to get it off)

Then I had to do a lot of extreme adjustment to the RD. Seems the goatlink pushes the RD out about 2 cogs worth, so I had to run the limit screws way over to their other extremes, and re set the cable tension.

OK so finally I got it shifting kinda ok, but not good. It seems there must be a gap in the cassette. The cassette is a 3-cog spider, then another 3-cog spider, and then 4 individual cogs on the right. When I'm on the right (small) side of the cassette, down(left)shifting is easy, upshifting doesn't wanna go. When I'm on the left (big) side of the cassette, upshifting is a snap, but for downshifting I gotta push the shifter a little past and give it half a rev or so to catch. This implies to me I've got a gap between the spider and the individual cogs. I tried wiggling cogs by hand, but couldn't feel any slack.

How could this be? I tightened the crap outta that lockring, those cogs shoulda got smooshed together real good. Did I maybe bend my spidered cogs by working them with a mallet? Would I be able to bend them back with pliers or something?

Why is it so hard to slide cassettes off/onto this hub? Is it jacked up, are some hubs just like that?

Lockring tool with center pin has a square socket, put a breaker bar on it

and put a pipe on the end of your chain whip handle .. leverage!

Clue: Nobody here can see any of that. The one who can see it has not looked.

Without knowing or seeing anything of your specific hub, it sounds like this happened: Cogsets with individual steel cogs will wear notches into the splines of aluminum freehub bodies. (That's why the biggest cogs, which create the most torque, are on aluminum carriers.) Those notches push up burrs on either side of the small notch, which impedes removal of the old cassette .Those burrs need to be trimmed down with a file before you install the new cassette.

Try again bob.

Thanks for nothing

Thanks for an actual response!
There were some visible burrs on the cassette, but they didn't seem significant. I guess a miniscule amount of burring, if on enough of the splines, adds up to less tolerance all around.
Taking a file to the splines sounds like a good idea.

Are there hubs where it's normal for the freehub body to just pull off by hand when the cassette lockring is removed?

Are you asking if there is a hub where the freehub body will pull off when the lockring is reomoved? None I've ever seen. If you want to know if the cassette will pull off easily when the lockring is removed, yes all of the Shimano (steel and Ti) and Campy (Aluminum with tall splines) freehubs will let the cassette slide off easily. However, I am careful to torque the lockrings to full spec (40-50 Nm).

Yes, some hubs disassemble like that.

The damage to the splines are likely the result of the lockring not being properly tight.

+1
If the cassette is as stuck as it sounds, I'd see if a new freehub body is both available & cheap. If so, I'd be keen for a replacement. I like steel frehub bodies they don't get dug into as easily, but either is fine with proper torque. 32 ft-lbs is near the top end of the torque range and will be fine at preventing so much dig in at the splines.

Interesting. When I say 'freehub body' that might not be the right term, but what I mean is when I grabbed the cassette to pull it off, what was left looked like this:



The splined cylinder was still (solidly) inside the cassette, with its pawls sticking out the back. Putting it all back in, it was not hard to get the pawls to slot back into teeth. The thing that could conceivably fix the freehub together, just pulls off with fingers. It's all held together loosely by the lockring, and then tightly by the quick-release.

Would it have to be a matching brand/model to replace, or can these things be interchangeable (assuming pawls fit)?

Yup, we're all talking about the same thing. And that body is definitely brand specific, though it might be used in several models by that brand - but not all.

I went in and pulled the cassette off, took a file to the notchiness on the hub splines, and then the cassette went back on a lot easier. But the end result was the same. THEN I pulled it again and tried to sand down the plastic spacer, I got cog+spacer down from like 9.0mm to 8.5mm, but that still didn't make any difference.

I am convinced at this point that this Sunrace cassette is an example of you get what you pay for. The cogs and built in spacers are not manufactured precisely enough to get accurate shifting.

So now I'm going to settle in and live with it for at least a year before I 'earn' the right to spend more money on a higher quality Shimano or Sram cassette.

The Sunrace cassettes are fine.

Did you check your hanger alignment with the Goatlink hanger extender? It is likely not straight which will affect your index spacing.

And even if it is, you took a derailleur designed to keep the upper pulley close to the cogs and moved it down an inch to where it is only close to the 42t. Of course it isn't going to shift as well as designed.


What spacer are you sanding down, and why?

Generally, any project undertaken by a man with a mallet is unlikely to succeed. Do you know how to check the hanger alignment?

That's not going to help getting suggestions / help.

Back to the question, and the severe lack of really important info which seem to be the key here (and others are suggesting), is what is the freehub made from, Hope offers Aluminum, and Steel, if it's Alu (guessing from the issue you have, it is), this is a well know issue that cassettes (regardless of the carrier to an extent) will dig into the soft cassette splines, and cause the issues you have having, Hope offers steel freehubs, other brands have solutions, Shimano only do steel (less XTR level titanium), Novatec and others have steel reinfored splines (Novatec calls this A.B.G)

For the shifting issues with #Kontact , if your looking to 'upgrade to Shimano, that means going to 11 speed, as a 11-42 isn't made by them in 10 speed.

Yes, I should check the hanger alignment. I don't have the tool, so I'd have to take it into the shop, which has an extremely high inconvenience barrier for me. I'd love to DIY like this, but I don't have a drill press.

Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - Aligning a bent derailleur hanger

The cassette, from left (inside/biggest) to right is:
spider of 3 cogs, with built-in metal spacer on the right
spider of 3 cogs, with no built-in metal spacer
plastic spacer
flat single cog
3 more single cogs, with built-in metal spacers on the left
lockring

My shifting behavior is such that it's hard to downshift into the granny, and easy to upshift out of it. It's extremely slow to upshift to the outer cogs, but downshifting is great. This tells me that the cogs on the right are too far to the right, and the cogs on the left are too far to the left. So I wanted to make the spacer in the middle smaller so they'd get closer together.

The hub is aluminum. Why would notching cause shifting issues? Isn't it all about spacing?

What you're describing is classic hanger misalignment. Stop damaging your cassette spacers - that's a ridiculous reaction to the problem you're seeing.

That's great to know, I didn't realize that. So I guess I'll pop it down to the shop and get that sucker straightened out. It'll be great to have nice shifting.

So it seemed to shift fine with the old 11-36 cassette; I guess the point is the goatlink has some amount of manufacturing imprecision, and my hanger actually needs to be misaligned so that with the goatlink the compound system will be aligned?

No, I'd say that your hanger might not have been aligned perfectly, but it didn't matter because it was the normal short length. But then you doubled the length with the Goatlink, causing any angle offset to be magnified.

AND, you Goatlink isn't necessarily straight, either. It can have a difference in angle between the top and bottom just like the frame hanger. Regardless of how it happened, your derailleur needs to be bolted to something that is in the proper plane with the frame, otherwise it will make it seem like the index points are compressed together.


So, next time you run into something that appears to need a hammer or file on a bicycle, do feel free to check in here first.

I did check in here first, as my OP said

But early responders apparently didn't recognize the classic signs of hanger misalignment.

Probably because you suggested that the cassette was gapped from the notches in the freehub body preventing it from going on correctly.

I bet you'd lose some shifting precision if you throw your old 36T cassette back on. Anyway, it may be worth a try.

What the Goat Link will do is widen the gap between the derailleur and the cassette to get around those large sprockets.

But, that means that the gap will also be wide around the small sprockets, and more chain flex causing imprecise shifting.

On the other hand, using a derailleur made for the 11-42 cassette should shift better.

Ok, I see the problem, apparently none of the derailleurs are actually rated for 11-42 10s. I'm seeing notes of using the M8000, but nothing seems to indicate how they're dealing with the shift ratio. Some people seem to indicate a longer B-Screw and no goat link for certain derailleurs.

Interesting. My DR is M786, seems to be specifically what goatlink was designed for.

It would be an easy test to pop the goatlink off and see what shifting is like (and how many of the cogs I can reach before they're too big -- probably at least 8 of them)