Should I get a new headset?
08-28-18 | 02:18 PM
#1
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With a mighty wind
Joined: May 2015
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Should I get a new headset?
I've got a Campy Chorus headset threadless 1" from about 2003 or so. I use a shim on the 1 1/8" stem as is standard. It's been ridden plenty but serviced. It's on a bike I got last year.
Since I've owned the bike, I've had to tighten the headset every few rides. This has been true even with a few variables changed. I've swapped stems twice to work on fit, and in fact will have another at my doorstep later this week. I also swapped the handmade steel fork with an all carbon fork, this was because the steel fork was cut off at the stem and I wanted a slightly taller riding position (sucks getting older). I've got about an inch of spacers stacked under my stem now.
The problem has gotten worse, I can't finish a ride without my headset going loose. I'm not talking slamming all over, flopping, and spilling bearings. It's just loose enough that I can feel it and need to do something about it. I put carbon paste on basically everything and tried again, it didn't help.
I was meditative on my ride today and something from my past came forward. I've had one other bike ever that I had trouble keeping the headset tight on. You guessed it, that bike also had a Campy Chorus headset from the early 00's. Well slap my face and call me a finicky Italian.
I've had this problem between 2 stems and 2 forks of different material. The steerer tube is far enough under the cap to get compression. The expansion plug isn't slipping (and the star nut on the steel fork isn't slipping either). The only variable that's remained the same is the headset.
My gravel bike has a 1" Cane Creek 40 headset, steel fork and uses a shim on the headset. It'll bash 50 miles of washboards a day for a week, or forever, and it simply doesn't come loose. I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason not to have a new 40 sent to me today. Durable, cartridge bearings, easy to mess with, not a finicky Italian. The only downside I see is that it doesn't come in polished silver.
Is this a step in the right direction? Is this a stupid idea and I must be missing some other variable?
Since I've owned the bike, I've had to tighten the headset every few rides. This has been true even with a few variables changed. I've swapped stems twice to work on fit, and in fact will have another at my doorstep later this week. I also swapped the handmade steel fork with an all carbon fork, this was because the steel fork was cut off at the stem and I wanted a slightly taller riding position (sucks getting older). I've got about an inch of spacers stacked under my stem now.
The problem has gotten worse, I can't finish a ride without my headset going loose. I'm not talking slamming all over, flopping, and spilling bearings. It's just loose enough that I can feel it and need to do something about it. I put carbon paste on basically everything and tried again, it didn't help.
I was meditative on my ride today and something from my past came forward. I've had one other bike ever that I had trouble keeping the headset tight on. You guessed it, that bike also had a Campy Chorus headset from the early 00's. Well slap my face and call me a finicky Italian.
I've had this problem between 2 stems and 2 forks of different material. The steerer tube is far enough under the cap to get compression. The expansion plug isn't slipping (and the star nut on the steel fork isn't slipping either). The only variable that's remained the same is the headset.
My gravel bike has a 1" Cane Creek 40 headset, steel fork and uses a shim on the headset. It'll bash 50 miles of washboards a day for a week, or forever, and it simply doesn't come loose. I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason not to have a new 40 sent to me today. Durable, cartridge bearings, easy to mess with, not a finicky Italian. The only downside I see is that it doesn't come in polished silver.
Is this a step in the right direction? Is this a stupid idea and I must be missing some other variable?
08-28-18 | 02:57 PM
#3
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With a mighty wind
Joined: May 2015
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08-28-18 | 03:13 PM
#4
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,906
Likes: 528
From: SW Ohio
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
So we’re talking about an Aheadset (threadless type), yes? Just want to make absolutely sure we’re not talking threaded type.
Based on you saying star nut for the steel fork and expansion plug for the carbon steerer fork, I’m curious how you are snugging up the expansion plug? Also how tight are you torquing the top cap to when you set the bearing preload? Also, same question for the stem bolts (how tight are you torquing them to?). Are you using a torque wrench? Or are you using standard metric Allen wrenches?
Also, when you tighten the headset and feel like it is good to go, what are you basing this conclusion on? The front brake test? Or the feel of the steering side to side? What about the bounce test?
As as a person who does his own maintenance I have been plagued by this issue too. I think I have just about got the problem licked. If I was going to guess, I’d say there is nothing inherently wrong with the Campy Chorus headset. If anything I would check the quality of the fork plug. Some are much better than others. The Deda one is longer and with more aggressive knurling than the shorter FSA & Ritchey ones I’ve seen.
Also, are you greasing the compression plug bolt? And are you putting a little bit of grease on the wedges? Both these things help you snug this puppy up, more. Same with the top cap bolt. Grease that puppy. Then use a longer handled wrench than your standard wrench. I am using 3/8” drive metric Allen socket bits clicked into a 3/8” SK mechanics sliding T-bar and using 2 hands to really tighten both the plug and the top cap bolt. I tried using a torque wrench to see what it felt like to be at the correct spec, but honestly - now that I know roughly how tight is tight - I’m doing it all by feel now. Same with the stem bolts. I mean don’t go too crazy since a really tight compression plug will make a loose stem start to tighten up on its own. I feel pretty confident about how I’m doing mine now and that slightly sloppy, not quite front end knocking but still obviously micro-loose front end sensation has not been coming back hardly at all.
I have an Acros 1-1/8” headset with Reynolds Ouzo all carbon fork on one bike and a Ritchey WCS all carbon 1-1/8” & Chris King on the other. Both had the looseness issue and once I applied the grease as outlined above and tightened things as outlined above - the problems have subsided. Give it a try & get back with us about the true state of those bolts and the state of your compression plug. The Deda one runs the full length of your typical threadless stem - you can’t necessarily say that about the crap ones.
Based on you saying star nut for the steel fork and expansion plug for the carbon steerer fork, I’m curious how you are snugging up the expansion plug? Also how tight are you torquing the top cap to when you set the bearing preload? Also, same question for the stem bolts (how tight are you torquing them to?). Are you using a torque wrench? Or are you using standard metric Allen wrenches?
Also, when you tighten the headset and feel like it is good to go, what are you basing this conclusion on? The front brake test? Or the feel of the steering side to side? What about the bounce test?
As as a person who does his own maintenance I have been plagued by this issue too. I think I have just about got the problem licked. If I was going to guess, I’d say there is nothing inherently wrong with the Campy Chorus headset. If anything I would check the quality of the fork plug. Some are much better than others. The Deda one is longer and with more aggressive knurling than the shorter FSA & Ritchey ones I’ve seen.
Also, are you greasing the compression plug bolt? And are you putting a little bit of grease on the wedges? Both these things help you snug this puppy up, more. Same with the top cap bolt. Grease that puppy. Then use a longer handled wrench than your standard wrench. I am using 3/8” drive metric Allen socket bits clicked into a 3/8” SK mechanics sliding T-bar and using 2 hands to really tighten both the plug and the top cap bolt. I tried using a torque wrench to see what it felt like to be at the correct spec, but honestly - now that I know roughly how tight is tight - I’m doing it all by feel now. Same with the stem bolts. I mean don’t go too crazy since a really tight compression plug will make a loose stem start to tighten up on its own. I feel pretty confident about how I’m doing mine now and that slightly sloppy, not quite front end knocking but still obviously micro-loose front end sensation has not been coming back hardly at all.
I have an Acros 1-1/8” headset with Reynolds Ouzo all carbon fork on one bike and a Ritchey WCS all carbon 1-1/8” & Chris King on the other. Both had the looseness issue and once I applied the grease as outlined above and tightened things as outlined above - the problems have subsided. Give it a try & get back with us about the true state of those bolts and the state of your compression plug. The Deda one runs the full length of your typical threadless stem - you can’t necessarily say that about the crap ones.
09-05-18 | 06:20 PM
#5
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With a mighty wind
Joined: May 2015
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I messed with it more about a week ago and sure enough, the plug was slipping. I couldn't tighten it more either. So even though I was able to get my headset to what seemed tight, it wouldn't stay. Also, the old plug was a teeny thing, definitely wouldn't add crushing support from the stem.
Like I mentioned, I put a new stem on the bike to adjust fit. Coincidentally, it had torque specs on it. 78in/lbs. I also got the plug that's about 2" long and has a rough knurled pattern.
So I put carbon paste on the inside of the stem and installed the plug. I didn't use a torque wrench on it but got it very tight. I used carbon paste on the rest and used the torque wrench. Its hard to guage since it's so much longer than a regular wrench but 78 ft/lbs seems like a lot more than I usually use.
Itll be Sunday or Monday before I get to ride again but I'm very hopeful that this will fix my woes.
Like I mentioned, I put a new stem on the bike to adjust fit. Coincidentally, it had torque specs on it. 78in/lbs. I also got the plug that's about 2" long and has a rough knurled pattern.
So I put carbon paste on the inside of the stem and installed the plug. I didn't use a torque wrench on it but got it very tight. I used carbon paste on the rest and used the torque wrench. Its hard to guage since it's so much longer than a regular wrench but 78 ft/lbs seems like a lot more than I usually use.
Itll be Sunday or Monday before I get to ride again but I'm very hopeful that this will fix my woes.
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