Frame quality
02-05-19 | 02:21 PM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,344
Likes: 5,461
From: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Apart from handmade steel frames I understand most frames are made in Taiwan or the RPC these days. Most have large obvious welds which may seem ugly to some but should be stronger than theybwould be with the same weld filed down smooth. I have a 94 Cannondale which has no apparent welds at all but it alleges on a frame sticker it was made in the USA.. Being a Luddite I prefer steel frames but the two Al frames I have work well. Something I have heard a lot about is ride quality with steel being more lively,supple etc. And yet the the part of a bike that is subject to the most flex would seem to me to be handlebars but Al bars have been the norm for 50 years at least.
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
02-05-19 | 02:53 PM
#27
Apart from handmade steel frames I understand most frames are made in Taiwan or the RPC these days. Most have large obvious welds which may seem ugly to some but should be stronger than theybwould be with the same weld filed down smooth. I have a 94 Cannondale which has no apparent welds at all but it alleges on a frame sticker it was made in the USA.. Being a Luddite I prefer steel frames but the two Al frames I have work well. Something I have heard a lot about is ride quality with steel being more lively,supple etc. And yet the the part of a bike that is subject to the most flex would seem to me to be handlebars but Al bars have been the norm for 50 years at least.
02-05-19 | 02:56 PM
#28
And for more then 50 years it's suggested that Al bars are regularly be examined and replaced every few years to avoid the cracks and failures that happen often enough. So if you are good with also placing your frame into that same category, of being a limited life span component, then all is well. But if you insist on believing that your frame is a lifetime item Al isn't the best choice. Andy (who also knows a handle bar costs far less then a frame does)
And yet:
German Tour magazine fatigue test of high-end carbon, steel, and aluminum frames
02-05-19 | 06:25 PM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,344
Likes: 5,461
From: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
My understanding that by increasing the stiffness of an AL frame you also extend the number of stress cycles before failure might be a concern. What would be interesting is to test a steel frame that equals the stiffness of those Al frames (tested how many years ago?). Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
02-06-19 | 01:12 PM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,657
Likes: 1,119
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Addressing the OP's original question about frame quality increasing with increasing bike cost, I remember years ago when Litespeed used 3/2.5 Al/V grade Ti for most of it's frames but used the stronger, significantly more expensive and harder to work 6/4 Al/V grade Ti for a couple of it's top line frames.
02-06-19 | 02:27 PM
#31
I just had lunch with a couple of guys who bought titanium bikes years ago. At one point in the conversation, they compared notes about their experiences with titanium.
FWIW, one got his cracked Litespeed titanium frame replaced under warranty; however, they refused to replace the replacement frame under warranty when that one cracked. The other guy broke one titanium frame but is still happily riding his second (a Merlin).
FWIW, one got his cracked Litespeed titanium frame replaced under warranty; however, they refused to replace the replacement frame under warranty when that one cracked. The other guy broke one titanium frame but is still happily riding his second (a Merlin).
02-06-19 | 03:51 PM
#32
Banned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
the Long career bike frame builder, Bruce Gordon, had a sample of some popular famous brand Italian steel frames
cut up , showing the lugs hid some rushed workmanship
problems just to meet the demands to get the quota numbers up , when they could sell them as fast as they could make them, during the bike boom..
so good materials but rushed production is a deterioration of quality ..
cut up , showing the lugs hid some rushed workmanship
problems just to meet the demands to get the quota numbers up , when they could sell them as fast as they could make them, during the bike boom..
so good materials but rushed production is a deterioration of quality ..
02-06-19 | 04:02 PM
#33
Banned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
recalling...
My understanding that by increasing the stiffness of an AL frame you also extend the number of stress cycles before failure might be a concern. What would be interesting is to test a steel frame that equals the stiffness of those Al frames (tested how many years ago?). Andy
so increasing diameters and shapes to best cope with the stresses they had at those joints..
So, would be a bit more of a level playing field, for comparing with Aluminum structures of same shape, just different materials....
....
02-07-19 | 12:22 PM
#34
Palmer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,151
Likes: 2,261
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Cycling Plus magazine tested (02/14) a Specialized with one of those 'Smartweld' frames. They didn't know what it was about that bike, but they went on to describe what sounded like 'planing' to me.
02-07-19 | 06:25 PM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 4
From: North East Tennessee
Bikes: Basso Luguna, Fuji Nevada
I don't understand what you mean with "planing", assuming you mean planing as is making something flat.
02-07-19 | 07:18 PM
#36
Banned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
02-08-19 | 10:21 AM
#37
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,126
Likes: 6,342
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
I saw in passing a few years ago the contemporary Japan Bridgestone company had shown what was like a Hydro-formed steel frame
so increasing diameters and shapes to best cope with the stresses they had at those joints..
So, would be a bit more of a level playing field, for comparing with Aluminum structures of same shape, just different materials....
....
so increasing diameters and shapes to best cope with the stresses they had at those joints..
So, would be a bit more of a level playing field, for comparing with Aluminum structures of same shape, just different materials....
....
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
02-08-19 | 10:44 AM
#38
Palmer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,151
Likes: 2,261
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
I saw in passing a few years ago the contemporary Japan Bridgestone company had shown what was like a Hydro-formed steel frame so increasing diameters and shapes to best cope with the stresses they had at those joints. So, would be a bit more of a level playing field, for comparing with Aluminum structures of same shape, just different materials.
02-08-19 | 10:47 AM
#39
Palmer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,151
Likes: 2,261
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
