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Dura Ace 7400-era freehub removal and reinstallation - how?

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Dura Ace 7400-era freehub removal and reinstallation - how?

Old 12-20-19, 12:33 AM
  #1  
agentmulder
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Dura Ace 7400-era freehub removal and reinstallation - how?

Hello,

I have two rear hubs here, both are 7400 era, but the freehubs are different. I'd like to remove the freehub on the broken hub and swap it to the other hub (that has a freehub that I cant use on it).

What is the process?

I haven't tried too hard at this stage, but can say that the rings with the pin spanner holes in them just seem to spin, thought I best get the process down before I go and ruin them 👍. My next step would be to remove the bearings and see if the extra access revealed anything.

Any help appreciated!
Thanks



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Old 12-20-19, 12:42 AM
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Haven稚 taken apart any D-A hubs.
But the general approach for Shimano freehub bodies is to pull the axle. Then there is a hollow-core Allen type of bolt which the axle runs through that holds the f/h to the hub. Usually - but not always - it痴 loosened from the DS. Regular thread.
The rings with the holes should be a dust shield, and spin with the splined shell of the f/h body. Try holding the splined shell steady and turn the ring in the marked direction if you need to get it out.

Last edited by dabac; 12-20-19 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 12-20-19, 02:47 AM
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I'm the unfortunate owner of a few of these hubs: the Dura-Ace 740X series.

The freehubs are unlike anything Shimano made before or since, and are actually screwed into the hub shell with a threaded male protrusion. Not attached with the usual 10mm hollow bolt.

In order to remove the freehubs you'll need to remove the axle and bearings of course, and then apply the exceedingly rare special remover tool. Since the freehubs tighten with pedaling torque, you'll need to build these both hubs back into complete wheels in order to get enough torque.

Replacement freehub bodies are almost impossible to source, but not as impossible as the remover.
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Old 12-20-19, 09:51 AM
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Some of us have the tool for these early DA freehub bodies Where is the OP located? Andy (who just had a couple of these hubs in hand and will again soon to finish off the build up for a friend)
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Old 12-22-19, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Some of us have the tool for these early DA freehub bodies Where is the OP located? Andy (who just had a couple of these hubs in hand and will again soon to finish off the build up for a friend)
Apologies for the late reply, the new forum settings doesn't automatically subscribe me!

Thanks for the info, dang seems like nothing is easy with the era of bikes I've chosen to love! But I think that's likely confirmation bias at play, so many times I've ridden past Di2 crap-outs, creaky bottom brackets and then placed higher in races by sneaking up on riders with my relatively silent freewheels - ha ha ... anyway, back on topic:

I am located in Auckland, New Zealand over the xmas break, then back to Melbourne, Australia for the new year (via Chengdu, China, in the unlikely case that's helpful )

Alternatively, does anyone have a picture and dimensions of the tool? I work in a place that might be able to fabricate something workable 👍 (depending on its complexity)
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Old 12-22-19, 01:37 AM
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THe tool and the alternatives are in this thread

Removal of Dura Ace FH-7400 freehub

https://dt6110.web.fc2.com/parts/TL-FH10.html

Last edited by dedhed; 12-22-19 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 12-22-19, 03:12 AM
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This page for the win: https://dt6110.web.fc2.com/parts/TL-FH10.html

Always nice when there are an even amount of splines 👍

Thanks everyone.

Last edited by agentmulder; 12-22-19 at 03:54 AM.
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Old 12-22-19, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by agentmulder View Post
This page for the win: TL-FH10 7400 カセットフリー 抜き デュラエース
Thanks everyone.
I kind of like the 7/16" key stock one. Seems like a lot less fabricating with the same results.
Need TH-FH10 tool for ten minutes......
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Old 12-22-19, 12:16 PM
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Ah that's good too, but I'm not sure how easy that will be to source in metric land (unless key stock is imperial as standard?).

11.11mm rounded to a likely 12mm looks like a lot more work and 11mm isn't a number you often see in spec but I'm pretty sure there will be something rattling around the machine shop that I can make happen, got to wait until later in Jan though until I'm back at homebase/work though.

As for having to build up the old hub to a semblance of a wheel to get the torque on the unit, I'll make a good flat on the damaged side of the flange for a vice to grip, the tool side I can get a large wrench on 👍

Last edited by agentmulder; 12-22-19 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 12-27-19, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by agentmulder View Post
As for having to build up the old hub to a semblance of a wheel to get the torque on the unit, I'll make a good flat on the damaged side of the flange for a vice to grip, the tool side I can get a large wrench on 👍
If my experience with the 7400 hubs is any indication, you probably won't be able to remove the freehub without lacing the hub into a wheel. You will need a SUBSTANTIAL amount of torque to remove it, and I suspect that the vice will simply destroy the hub body when you try to remove it. Shimano specifies that no oil or grease is to be used when installing the freehub, so it will be TIGHT after riding just a few miles. It seemed odd to me not to use a lubricant, especially on dissimilar metal threads, but I followed their directions nonetheless.

I have the proper tool for working with the 7400 hubs, and I'll mail it to you. All you need to do is return it to me and cover my shipping. Be careful with the 7400 freehubs, as you probably know they are almost unobtanium.
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Old 12-29-19, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by speedevil View Post
I have the proper tool for working with the 7400 hubs, and I'll mail it to you. All you need to do is return it to me and cover my shipping. Be careful with the 7400 freehubs, as you probably know they are almost unobtanium.
Oh wow, nice! Thank you, really good community vibe here at these forums, trust me, the tool will be in good hands 👍.

I'll be in touch via PM closer to when I'll be back in Melbourne 👍. I'll also remind myself to bring a fair amount of used spokes for a temp lace up if required.
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Old 12-29-19, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by agentmulder View Post
This page for the win: TL-FH10 7400 カセットフリー 抜き デュラエース

Always nice when there are an even amount of splines 👍

Thanks everyone.
Looking at the pictures in this link is helpful even if you don稚 understand Japanese. In the last photo where you see a chainwhip being around a large cog, it got me thinking: You most likely could arrange 2 cogs & 2 chainwhips in a way such that you might not have to lace up the unbuilt hub into a wheel for torque to remove the freehub bolt.

I can稚 remember if you said you have the Uniglide only 7402 8-speed freehub body or the combo UG/HG freehub body that takes HG cassettes in 8, 9 or 10 speeds.

These are hubs to survive an entire lifetime, BTW. Extremely heavy but just as pretty and durable even when broken in with some 都hop wear. The dust seals BTW have this clever overlapping labyrinth seal that clicks to conceal 2 little micro grease gun pores. The axle locknuts are Campy quality and lock down very positively on the cones with fine threads on the axle permitting fine bearing preload adjustments to be finalized once the wheel is mounted in the frame and the quick release skewer snugged down to compress the cones slightly and creep up on that final bearing adjustment permitting zero free play but smooth spinning.
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Old 12-29-19, 09:15 PM
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I was once in the exact same situation as you're in - a broken DA hub that I wanted to get the body off to put on to a good DA hub. The broken hub was unlaced from a wheel and I did what you're suggesting - putting it in a vise. Yes, I did destroy the hub shell in the process but did get the FH body off. My local bike shop had the special tool and let me borrow it. The good hub was laced into a wheel so no problem there. I'm going to agree with others that you'll need to lace the good hub up to get its FH body off.
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Old 12-30-19, 01:22 AM
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Chrome does as good job of translating that page, but as you point out, the photographs tell the story.

I have a UG freewheel on a good hub body that I'd like to replace with an HG compatible freehub from a damaged hub (spokes pulled through the flange while I was racing a criterium!). See the pictures on the first post 👍.
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Old 12-30-19, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tcarl View Post
I'm going to agree with others that you'll need to lace the good hub up to get its FH body off.
Fair enough, wondering now would you lace it up with rubbish spokes/nipples/rim, or just go straight to the actual wheel the hub was planned for?
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Old 12-30-19, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by agentmulder View Post
Chrome does as good job of translating that page, but as you point out, the photographs tell the story.

I have a UG freewheel on a good hub body that I'd like to replace with an HG compatible freehub from a damaged hub (spokes pulled through the flange while I was racing a criterium!). See the pictures on the first post 👍.

Gotcha, understood. Since you know the transplant can be done, I would say go ahead and have your wheel built with the UG Freewheel hub (which I’m assuming is the 7402, 8 speed freehub body one which is is the same width as the 7403 UG/HG, 8 speed one you are replacing - and not the slightly shorter 7400, 7 speed Uniglide one which would have the shorter axle and be limited to 6/7 speed gearing).

Once the replacement wheel is built with the Uniglide only freehub, then remove the axle set, remove the bearings and wipe out the grease and use the dedicated removal tool (Shimano TL-FH10) mounted on the appropriate metric socket (19mm?) then onto a long-ish T-bar or short breaker bar. Carefully back out the freehub bolt (I forget if it is “righty-tighty/lefty loosey” or reverse threaded) because as has already been noted, the FH bolt threads are knife-like coarse threads that are installed dry. I have a theory as to why this is BTW. I believe the purpose during assembly is to keep the connection grease free to prevent over-torquing which could damage the protrusion on the hub shell.

Then just re-install the UG/HG freehub body from the damaged hub in reverse order. It would probably be best also to be sure and transfer the same axle-set over as well since the 7403 UG/HG one is open on the HG lockring end and I think Shimano gives the outer cone an O-ring seal that the UG one might not need since it has a full dust cap on the FH body end.

Last edited by masi61; 12-30-19 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 12-30-19, 02:07 AM
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I'd say it'll be a right hand thread from drive side perspective, so that normal riding fastens it 👍.

I'm lacing these wheels myself, thinking now I may throw on some old spokes/nipples to get the UG freehub off, that way if there are any unforeseen issues I will minimise time and wheel hardware wasted (that's the pessimist in me ha ha &#128516. Haven't thought too much on it, but I imagine as long as it's relatively balanced the lacing pattern can be much simpler too.

Might do it first as well.
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Old 12-30-19, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by agentmulder View Post
I'd say it'll be a right hand thread from drive side perspective, so that normal riding fastens it 👍.

I'm lacing these wheels myself, thinking now I may throw on some old spokes/nipples to get the UG freehub off, that way if there are any unforeseen issues I will minimise time and wheel hardware wasted (that's the pessimist in me ha ha &#128516. Haven't thought too much on it, but I imagine as long as it's relatively balanced the lacing pattern can be much simpler too.

Might do it first as well.
Good luck, it should be fine since these hubs are very strong. Hopefully you can preserve the nice, clear anodized silver finish of the undamaged Dura Ace Uniglide hub. Do you know for sure that the Uniglide only one is for 8 speed (and therefore has the same axle length)?

Also, I understand that Criterium riding can put a lot of torque on a wheel but if any hub could take it, I would have thought that the Dura Ace 7400 era hubs could take the torque and extreme abuse better than most any other brand hub out there.

BTW: what drilling are these (how many spoke holes)?
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Old 12-30-19, 03:31 AM
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I'm about 95% sure the UG is 8 speed, but I'll certainly check, no use otherwise.

They're 36 hole. I ride 3-cross 36h rear and 2-cross 32h on the front, except my Campagnolo c-record and track bike groups where I'm strictly 32 (don't have the funds to double up on 36h).

I've noted that the campgy flanges have more material on the perimeter of the flange (relative to the holes), and I guess 32h will have slightly more material between holes around the circumference, but then, more force per spoke as well. But yes, I agree 7400 series is great stuff.

Still though, it broke... I'm 97kg, putting a fair bit of load on these wheels - with 3-cross I'm keeping the forces more tangential, and I did make sure to realign the spoke bends with the already pitted areas of the holes (1/4 chance of doing that randomly anyway ha ha), but yeah, it happened regardless. It actually didn't noticeably affect the race, I just noticed a slight wiggle afterwards, the flange split later when I tweaked the spokes by hand.
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