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Using Miche cassette with Campy

Old 07-27-20, 09:11 AM
  #1  
steelisreal19
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Using Miche cassette with Campy

I知 trying to get the most range out of my 9 speed Chorus, which is currently 53/39 and 13-26. My LBS suggested a Miche 12-29 rear cassette, would this work? I have three questions:

1. Will there be a noticeable difference in quality?
2. Will my short cage Chorus 9 speed rear derailleur work with the 29 cassette?
3. The LBS suggested a non Campy chain, same question about quality difference.




thanks!

thanks!
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Old 07-27-20, 09:43 AM
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I am using a 12-29 Miche 10 speed cassette with a short cage Chorus derailleur. The cassette is heavier than a similar size Chorus cassette but it was also less than 1/3 of the price. Shifting is very good, no different than the 13-26 I was using before. I bought this cassette for a trip to France a couple of years ago near Mont Ventoux. Since then I have also changed to a 50-34 compact crank
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Old 07-27-20, 01:52 PM
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I use a 13-27 Miche Primato Light 11-sp on my 2015 Chorus group. I finally gave in and got a lower low gear. but kept my favorite range (16-17-18-19) in the cassette intact. Miche was the only way to do this, with Campagnolo cassettes I could either have the 27 but lose the 18, or have the 18 and have a low of 25. I don't care about losing the 12, I've rarely spun out of the 53-12, so I doubt I'll spin out of a 53-13 any more frequently.

The Miche shifts just a well as the Campag cassette, but the 27 and the 19 are a bit noisy. I'm running a Campag 11 sp chain, my understanding is that they can be noisier than KMC chains on the Miche cassettes. My only other concern with the Miche is the 13 tooth only engages the freehub body with about 1/2 the cog thickness. I haven't had time to try and figure out why this is happening. Otherwise it works quite well.
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Old 07-27-20, 02:09 PM
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In my experience (10-speed mixed Chorus/Centaur group), the Miche cassettes are a bit heavier but long-wearing and high quality. And much cheaper. So good bang for the buck in my view.
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Old 07-27-20, 08:50 PM
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I think you're taking a risk with a short cage RD with this setup. IIRC, when Campag introduced the 13/29 "climbing cassette" - a relative dinnerplate at the time (late 90's I think), they also introduced medium cage RDs, which had the clearance for the 29t sprocket and the necessary chain wrap capacity (30t) for the 13/29 in combination with a 39/53 crankset. Short cage RDs have a chain wrap capacity of 27t, with a little fudging either way, but I think 30t might be too much. There's a useful discussion about this on the Branford Bikes website (my "go-to" for Campag parts and service)

Last edited by Litespud; 07-27-20 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 08-07-20, 01:04 AM
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Update: seems to work fine, but the derailleur is reeeeally close To the 29 cassette. I haven稚 take her out for a long ride yet but I知 optimistic. At least as a
short term solution to these hills 😂

thanks everyone for the input!
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Old 08-07-20, 07:15 AM
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Sounds good.
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Old 08-07-20, 09:48 AM
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I'm still hesitant to buy a 13-29 cassette for my short cage Chorus 10. The Branford Bike site says that it will fit the 29 tooth cog but it will exceed the chain wrap. 50/34 and 13-29 yields 32 and the wrap spec is only 27. As it is now I exceed that with 29 but don't have any issues. Hmmm, maybe if I put my 36 back on for the small chainring... Nope, it would go from a 35" low to a 34" low, not worth it.
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Old 08-07-20, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by steelisreal19 View Post
Update: seems to work fine, but the derailleur is reeeeally close To the 29 cassette. I haven稚 take her out for a long ride yet but I知 optimistic. At least as a
short term solution to these hills 😂
Assuming your LBS is in Rome, how did the guy there pronounce Miche? Soft or hard?

And which hills are you riding?
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Old 08-07-20, 11:18 AM
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No experience with Miche, but I prefer KMC 9/10sp chains with Campy Chorus / Record setups.

Wolf Tooth RoadLink works well with 9, 10 and 11sp short and medium cage road derailleurs for 28t +
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Old 08-07-20, 12:09 PM
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You screw in that B screw ?
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Old 08-08-20, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
Assuming your LBS is in Rome, how did the guy there pronounce Miche? Soft or hard?

And which hills are you riding?
He gave it a hard C, caught me off guard at first I値l admit.

Biking from the city is tough, so I usually throw my bike on the train and find somewhere in Tuscany. My favorite ride is from Cecina to Montecatini val di Cecina.

do you know the area? I知 new to Rome so still exploring.

Last edited by steelisreal19; 08-08-20 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 08-08-20, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by steelisreal19 View Post
He gave it a hard C, caught me off guard at first I値l admit.
Biking from the city is tough, so I usually throw my bike on the train and find somewhere in Tuscany. My favorite ride is from Cecina to Montecatini val di Cecina.
do you know the area? I知 new to Rome so still exploring.
Interesting on the hard C. Yes, I spent nearly a decade in Rome, although I wasn't really biking much. Strictly two-wheeled transportation, but the kind with an engine. It's a great city, although sometimes it can be frustrating...
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Old 08-08-20, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
Interesting on the hard C. Yes, I spent nearly a decade in Rome, although I wasn't really biking much. Strictly two-wheeled transportation, but the kind with an engine. It's a great city, although sometimes it can be frustrating...
why interesting? You壇 expect 田h to be pronounced as a hard C, no?
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Old 08-08-20, 05:02 PM
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I have made a Campy short cage shift a 12-30 with a bit of head scratching.

I tried a Miche 13-29 and almost immediately went to Campy. It just shifted like crap. I might have gotten a bad one, but mine was loud and sloppy. Sounded like gravel in the washing machine.

I've been happy with Shimano, Campy, and KMC chains. Campy is a teeny bit better, most wouldn't notice but I'm kind of a perfectionist (or a princess).
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Old 08-08-20, 11:18 PM
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You can get back a few teeth of chainwrap by never riding in the big / big gear.
Which you shouldn't do anyway, even if your drivetrain lets you get away with it, and even if the component manufacturer swears up and down that they designed the components specifically so that you can. They didn't, and you shouldn't.
Maximum stress on the drivetrain, maximum wear, it's almost always the noisiest gear on the bike, and the ratio almost always ends up being a duplicate of another gear, unless you specifically design the gearing so that it isn't, which nobody does, except for half-stepping weirdo gear-freaks. And even they avoid the big/big.

Just say no.

--Shannon
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Old 08-08-20, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
Assuming your LBS is in Rome, how did the guy there pronounce Miche? Soft or hard?

And which hills are you riding?
My local bike shop pronounces it with a hard C.
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Old 08-10-20, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ShannonM View Post
You can get back a few teeth of chainwrap by never riding in the big / big gear.
Which you shouldn't do anyway, even if your drivetrain lets you get away with it, and even if the component manufacturer swears up and down that they designed the components specifically so that you can. They didn't, and you shouldn't.
Maximum stress on the drivetrain, maximum wear, it's almost always the noisiest gear on the bike, and the ratio almost always ends up being a duplicate of another gear, unless you specifically design the gearing so that it isn't, which nobody does, except for half-stepping weirdo gear-freaks. And even they avoid the big/big.

Just say no.

--Shannon
NO, I don't agree. I ride my Campy drivetrain in big/big all the time and it is not noisy. It is 50/26. If it wears it down more I haven't noticed, but I'm not one to freak out if my chain/cassette is slightly worn. I keep it all lubed regularly and it shift perfectly. And no, it is not exactly duplicated. But that isn't the real reason for using it. For most of my riding I have no need for the small ring up front. NYC is pretty flat. For those few places that need a lower gear, I'd rather just stay in the big ring as they are short stretches like a bridge or a rise in the park. When I ride in truly hilly areas it is a different story and then I shift both.

And here is the pertinent question: Even if it did create more wear, how would that affect the rest of the cogs? It would only be the large cog. The chains themselves have enough play to do it and are made that way.

Last edited by zacster; 08-10-20 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 08-10-20, 08:25 AM
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I ride my Campag drivetrain all the time in the big/big as well, but in my case it is a 53/27. With a Chorus cassette it is as quiet as any other combination. With the Miche it does make a little noise, more of an annoyance than a problem IMHO.

Several years ago I was at a seminar and the chief engineer for one of the "S" component manufacturers was taking questions. A question on the use of the big/big or small/small combination came up. You could tell from the body language he was beyond tired of answering the question, but he gave a detailed and insightful answer. The short version is there is no reason to avoid using them.

The slightly longer version is if the drivetrain is properly setup they saw less than a 1% difference in wear on any of the drivetrain components using the big/big or small/small combination vs any other gear combination, and didn't see any significant difference in power lost in the system. He pointed out that the big/big combination is typically one of the most power efficient gear combinations in the drivetrain due to reducing the rotation at each chain rivet. The 2 biggest factors in the drivetrain set up were that chainstay length was longer than their minimum spec, and the drivetrain centerline is properly aligned. Both of these are mostly controlled by the frame (centerline can be tweaked with shims,) so if you have a frame from a reputable builder or manufacturer you probably have a setup that will allow all gear combinations to be used. As he put it, they put the gears on the drivetrain expecting all of them to be used, so use them.
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Old 08-13-20, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
why interesting? You壇 expect 田h to be pronounced as a hard C, no?
Originally Posted by tcarl View Post
My local bike shop pronounces it with a hard C.
Yes, a hard C is correct if you are pronouncing the word in isolation, but it's short for Michelin, and Italians don't pronounce that name with a hard C when talking about the tires. Also, it might sound a little funny to some people to pronounce it with the hard C instead of the soft.

Just found this though, which is pretty funny: https://www.bdc-mag.com/forum/t/mich...onuncia.68732/
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Old 08-13-20, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ShannonM View Post
You can get back a few teeth of chainwrap by never riding in the big / big gear.
Which you shouldn't do anyway, even if your drivetrain lets you get away with it, and even if the component manufacturer swears up and down that they designed the components specifically so that you can. They didn't, and you shouldn't.
Maximum stress on the drivetrain, maximum wear, it's almost always the noisiest gear on the bike, and the ratio almost always ends up being a duplicate of another gear, unless you specifically design the gearing so that it isn't, which nobody does, except for half-stepping weirdo gear-freaks. And even they avoid the big/big.

Just say no.

--Shannon

I agree Shannon,
My Trek with Campy 10 speed will object with noise in the big/big combo. Its a no brainer to manage your shifting to avoid the cross chaining issue. Maybe the manufacturers say there there is minimal wear (go figure) I don't like drive train noise and I avoid it.
Bob
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Old 08-14-20, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by frogman View Post
I agree Shannon,
My Trek with Campy 10 speed will object with noise in the big/big combo. Its a no brainer to manage your shifting to avoid the cross chaining issue. Maybe the manufacturers say there there is minimal wear (go figure) I don't like drive train noise and I avoid it.
Bob
Like I said my big/big combo is quiet, it is the small/small that I don't like because of the chain slop. I try to muscle my way up small hills in like a 50/21 and go to 23 and 26 if I can't quite make it. Shifting to the small ring while stressing up a hill is just asking for problems.
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