130mm for a 126mm hub frame
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Lock nut became locknut a long time ago here in the USA. It's more common here to see OLD. Over Locknut Dimension than it is to see OLN or Over Lock Nut. Though I suppose both are fine, but most of us will assume you also use the word tyre instead of tire for that piece of rubber that hits the road. <grin>
You have two similar threads going with a slight variation. However without the specifics added to your question as to exactly what brand and model of components you are trying to fit together, we can only make general statements.
I had a bike I put a wider freewheel on with more gears that needed 130 spacing as the small sprocket rubbed the stay. Or was it the chain? Any how, adding a spacer to the drive side made that 126 mm wide OLD into about 128 or 129 OLD and stopped the rub.
It was a steel bike and there was plenty of flex in the stays to not have to cold set it. Removing and reinstalling the wheel it did get easier over time. So maybe the bike did adjust itself over time.
So if you put a 130mm OLD hub in a 126mm bike, and it doesn't have spacers you can remove to make if fit a smaller rear spacing, you might have to add a spacer of a mm or two and live with a drop out spacing being more than 130mm wide of the actual hub if anything rubs. And of course dish, chain line and all sorts of other things get affected. But those are on going to be a few mm. So maybe not a worry, or maybe they will be a worry. You are in try it and see territory. Or, be safe and get the stuff that works together. Even if that includes a new bike.
You have two similar threads going with a slight variation. However without the specifics added to your question as to exactly what brand and model of components you are trying to fit together, we can only make general statements.
I had a bike I put a wider freewheel on with more gears that needed 130 spacing as the small sprocket rubbed the stay. Or was it the chain? Any how, adding a spacer to the drive side made that 126 mm wide OLD into about 128 or 129 OLD and stopped the rub.
It was a steel bike and there was plenty of flex in the stays to not have to cold set it. Removing and reinstalling the wheel it did get easier over time. So maybe the bike did adjust itself over time.
So if you put a 130mm OLD hub in a 126mm bike, and it doesn't have spacers you can remove to make if fit a smaller rear spacing, you might have to add a spacer of a mm or two and live with a drop out spacing being more than 130mm wide of the actual hub if anything rubs. And of course dish, chain line and all sorts of other things get affected. But those are on going to be a few mm. So maybe not a worry, or maybe they will be a worry. You are in try it and see territory. Or, be safe and get the stuff that works together. Even if that includes a new bike.
Last edited by Iride01; 03-16-24 at 11:57 AM.
#27
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In it's stock state, the left to right tension imbalance should be about 55% (based on center of hub flange to center of hub flange, assuming 3mm flange thickness). Reducing it to 126mm by just reducing the left side would bring the left side tension to about 47%. Whether this is an issue will depend on: the intended use of the wheel, weight of rider/bike, rim strength, spoke count, etc.
As mentioned previously, doing the reduction on both the right and left will mitigate some of the reduction in the tension imbalance. Here is an older post that explains it. (Thank you Miamijim). The first few post are worth a read (and re-read until it makes sense)
10-speeds on a 126mm hub SUCCESS - Bike Forums
The amount that you can reduce the right side will depend on the cassette you intend to use. A 10 speed cassette with an offset inner sprocket (on a carrier) like a Shimano DA or Ultegra will be narrower and allow more reduction on the right side.
Here is Shimano's standard spec for 8/9/10 speed freehubs (40.75mm to the locknut/dropout). Depending on the cassette intended, a couple of mm reduction may be possible.
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I have 7700 hubs on an older Cinelli. There was a little extra effort required to remove and replace the wheel, and I dealt with that for years, so technically you don’t need to mess with spacers. If you don’t want to deal with shortening the axle or cold setting the frame, you’ll be perfectly fine.
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Duplicate threads merged
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These are always interesting discussions, and they pop up every year or two.
Always two camps:
A) If you don’t cold set your frame to 130mm your bike will explode!
B) Done it dozens of times over decades and tens of thousands of miles. No problems!
Discuss.
Also: Grant Petersen.
Always two camps:
A) If you don’t cold set your frame to 130mm your bike will explode!
B) Done it dozens of times over decades and tens of thousands of miles. No problems!
Discuss.
Also: Grant Petersen.
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These are always interesting discussions, and they pop up every year or two.
Always two camps:
A) If you don’t cold set your frame to 130mm your bike will explode!
B) Done it dozens of times over decades and tens of thousands of miles. No problems!
Discuss.
Also: Grant Petersen.
Always two camps:
A) If you don’t cold set your frame to 130mm your bike will explode!
B) Done it dozens of times over decades and tens of thousands of miles. No problems!
Discuss.
Also: Grant Petersen.
#33
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If the chainstays are 425mm long, widening their spread from 126 to 130mm only changes the dropout angle by a bit over a quarter of a degree. I can easily imagine that small tilt being totally insignificant -- as it has been in my experience.
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I’ve cold set steel frames before. But that doesn’t mean it is possible to just shove, not cold set, a 130mm hub into any 126mm dropout frame and it will be fine.
And I’ve had to square the dropouts on a frame that was spread because they flared out. Not a big deal.
You do realize that if the dropouts flare so does the hanger?
John
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#35
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You wrote:
You specifically said that you "can't imagine" a bicycle with a retrofit 9 to 11 speed hub not having issues related to the new angle of the derailleur hanger, unless the dropouts were re-aligned.
I, and others, pointed out why your imagination is faulty. Specifically, it does not appear that you have a solid grasp on small the dropout angle change is.
Originally Posted by 70sSanO
If you are jumping to 9-10-11 speed index it will probably have issues. Most threads where there are shifting problems will have at least one is the hanger bent response. I can’t imagine not having a hanger issue if you don’t cold set and align the dropouts.
I, and others, pointed out why your imagination is faulty. Specifically, it does not appear that you have a solid grasp on small the dropout angle change is.
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I still can’t imagine someone forcing a 10 speed (130mm) or 11 speed (131mm) wheel into 126mm dropouts and not having to do some alignment.
The exception everyone took to what I said was that spreading/cold setting of the frame should be done. I haven’t worked in a shop, but I can’t image a bike mechanic just shoving a wheel in and handing it back to a customer with a bill.
I’ll stand by what I said.
John
The exception everyone took to what I said was that spreading/cold setting of the frame should be done. I haven’t worked in a shop, but I can’t image a bike mechanic just shoving a wheel in and handing it back to a customer with a bill.
I’ll stand by what I said.
John
Last edited by 70sSanO; 03-16-24 at 10:39 PM.
#37
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Whether or not it is appropriate for a professional mechanic to mount a wheel in a manner not intended by the maker is a whole 'nother question entirely.
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I would expect a mechanic would spread/cold set the dropouts and check the alignment of the frame and dropouts to make sure it was square.
I expect someone proficient in their craft will take the rudimentary steps I would take.
John
I expect someone proficient in their craft will take the rudimentary steps I would take.
John
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But if you are cold setting the frame, you should spread the stays and then align the dropouts to finish. (Also an S curve.) However, as TC1 points out, it isn't much angle, and requires very little of the alignment tool.
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‘86 Univega with horizontal dropouts and late 80’s Deore QR’s.
Even with that setup I needed to straighten dropouts to keep the rear wheel from shifting and rubbing on the NDS chainstay under heavy load. My first lesson that not everything always works the way you think it should.
John
Even with that setup I needed to straighten dropouts to keep the rear wheel from shifting and rubbing on the NDS chainstay under heavy load. My first lesson that not everything always works the way you think it should.
John
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‘86 Univega with horizontal dropouts and late 80’s Deore QR’s.
Even with that setup I needed to straighten dropouts to keep the rear wheel from shifting and rubbing on the NDS chainstay under heavy load. My first lesson that not everything always works the way you think it should.
John
Even with that setup I needed to straighten dropouts to keep the rear wheel from shifting and rubbing on the NDS chainstay under heavy load. My first lesson that not everything always works the way you think it should.
John
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Yes. Things do happen. Nothing is absolute.
John
John
#43
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Since you are so proficient in your craft, perhaps you can share with us your technique. How did you establish a reference plane from which to measure the required adjustment for each dropout?
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As explained a couple times previously: Even if necessary, squaring dropouts after a cold-set from 126 to 130 on a 27" or 700c frame is anything but rudimentary. I have some quite nice metrology instruments, and it would take me some significant time and effort to align dropouts to a precision greater than a quarter-degree. I also doubt that frames other than very high-end models were even originally built with smaller tolerances than what we are discussing here. I further doubt that very many cast dropouts are even manufactured to sufficient tolerances to make this discussion meaningful.
Since you are so proficient in your craft, perhaps you can share with us your technique. How did you establish a reference plane from which to measure the required adjustment for each dropout?
Since you are so proficient in your craft, perhaps you can share with us your technique. How did you establish a reference plane from which to measure the required adjustment for each dropout?
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#45
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You seemingly misunderstood the problem that needs solving. We don't need to find the midpoint between the dropouts, we need to find the reference plane that bisects the bicycle frame fore to aft. From that plane, we can then measure how far we need to adjust each dropout.
If our dropouts are already cockeyed -- which is the problem we are trying to solve -- they cannot be the basis for our measurement to correct that problem.
If our dropouts are already cockeyed -- which is the problem we are trying to solve -- they cannot be the basis for our measurement to correct that problem.
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You seemingly misunderstand the problem. He’s showing how to align dropouts with the proper tool, not the midpoint between the dropouts.
Maybe you’ve never used these tools?
Maybe you’ve never used these tools?
Last edited by smd4; 03-17-24 at 08:27 PM.
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You seemingly misunderstood the problem that needs solving. We don't need to find the midpoint between the dropouts, we need to find the reference plane that bisects the bicycle frame fore to aft. From that plane, we can then measure how far we need to adjust each dropout.
If our dropouts are already cockeyed -- which is the problem we are trying to solve -- they cannot be the basis for our measurement to correct that problem.
If our dropouts are already cockeyed -- which is the problem we are trying to solve -- they cannot be the basis for our measurement to correct that problem.
#48
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More to the point, one still has to measure -- precisely parallel to the axle -- to hundredth of a millimeter precision.
#49
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No, it is not. That tool does nothing whatsoever to find the reference plane with respect to the frame. If one is lucky, and the chainstays are perfectly aligned, this tool might coincidentally arrive at that reference plane, but luck is not a strategy.
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You seemingly misunderstood the problem that needs solving. We don't need to find the midpoint between the dropouts, we need to find the reference plane that bisects the bicycle frame fore to aft. From that plane, we can then measure how far we need to adjust each dropout.
If our dropouts are already cockeyed -- which is the problem we are trying to solve -- they cannot be the basis for our measurement to correct that problem.
If our dropouts are already cockeyed -- which is the problem we are trying to solve -- they cannot be the basis for our measurement to correct that problem.