In automotive terms, it's a non plug-in hybrid. All energy comes from the legs. The hybrid system spreads the workload evenly across the ride, rather than unevenly based on terrain. Zone 2 all day.

I like the idea; actually i like the idea a lot more than I like the idea of a plug-in e-bike. I'm just not sure how the numbers add up.

That is stretching "greener alternative" to the breaking point. Electric bikes are a greener alternative and can't really be called "polluting" in any terms. Without a battery the bicycle is even greener.

While there are a few people who may need the assistance, the vast majority of people don't need that kind of power assist. I've ridden with old people all of my life up to the point where I am an old people. I haven't run across that many old people before electric bikes came along that couldn't propel a bike down the road for from short to extended periods.

If you're saying ebikes are useless and shouldn't be used, well, then, I disagree. If a person can switch from driving a car to riding an ebike, I'd say it's an improvement, even if it's for only a few trips. There are people who just don't want to ride an analog bike even though they are able but are willing to ride ebikes. We've built society to require larger than necessary motors etc, and it's time to size down.

Many ebike riders came from riding bikes, so that doesn't seem like sizing down, but some are saying they ride more often and, as a result, get more exercise. Or they can go farther or faster. I'm looking for a school teacher job to start in September, and I'm looking at how long the commute will be at various schools around NYC. I commute some days by subway and other days by bike. Last year, my workplace was 13 miles away. It was a tough ride, so I only did it one day a week on average. If I had an ebike, I could do it more often, and riding a bike has some advantages over taking the subway. So I could more easily consider a job that's more than 10 miles away, my current cutoff.

Oops, we really shouldn't be debating the merits of ebikes here. Sorry about that.

Well, the lady in the video was doing a fairly long commute and wasn't a keen cyclist. She said this just made it easier. Did you even watch it?

It would be pretty cool to see these replace some of the super heavy pedal bikes in NYC's CitiBike bike share system. Call them hybrids that help riders get over the bridges. They'd be easier to deploy than ebikes.

I'm starting to doubt the claim (in the video) that she's not a keen cyclist. She seems pretty competent.

Yeah, if it works at all. You're right that it should require a LOT less attention than the ebikes in the system.

I'm blown away by the popularity of the ebikes. I think they account for 2/3 of the trips made, and it's getting hard to find the analog bikes. The ebikes are exensive to ride, and it's weird that people are willing to pay more than a subway fare to ride one. Well, maybe it does make sense considering that it offers a more predictable travel time. I prefer to ride for no cost above my membership fee.

That was thought-provoking enough to start me looking up info. None of what follows addresses the specific instance of a bicycle with a Supercapacitor (capitalization courtesy the Bike Forums spellchecker), unfortunately.

From this page:

Energy Density: Supercapacitors store much less energy per unit volume or weight compared to conventional batteries. In EVs, energy density translates to mileage per charge. Thus, batteries are more suitable in applications requiring large energy storage.

• Power Density: Supercapacitors can deliver large energy in a short time, making them ideal for applications requiring rapid power usage. Fast acceleration of electric vehicles and camera flashes are such applications.
• Self-Discharge: Batteries have much lower self-discharge rate compared to supercapacitors. Thus, batteries are more suitable for applications requiring long-term energy storage without frequent recharging.
• Lifetime: In batteries, the chemical reaction corrodes the components – so while supercapacitors can handle more than 1,000,000 charge/discharge cycles, a normal battery can only withstand about 2,000 to 3,000 cycles.
• Cost: Supercapacitors typically have a higher cost per watt, due to the cost of the components and the fact that the power is discharged very quickly and therefore sometimes inefficiently.
• Sustainability: Mining the lithium, nickel, and cobalt required for a Li-ion battery comes with environmental concerns around waste and pollution. In contrast, supercapacitors can use more sustainable materials, such as activated carbon from biomass sources that are more renewable, less harmful to the environment, and easier to recycle.

It said she was not a keen cyclist before she got this bike. But maybe the whole daily 18 km commute thing is completely made up and she doesn’t really ride this thing at all. It’s not the type of bike that would interest me as a keen cyclist, so there is that too. If I was commuting I would be using a lightweight road bike. This is something completely different.

I use ebikes every day (that I don’t ride into town and drive instead, which is 3-4 days a week). They have a network called Forest in London which let you have 10-13 minutes a day for “free” (there’s a small £2.90 min charge per day for unlocking twice). My car park to work journey is about 6-7 minutes each way, across the Thames with a great view of the London Eye and Big Ben and good cycle lanes. Zero effort/sweat, out in the open air, it’s such a great way to travel but I’m lucky, I do have just the right journey distance to minimise the cost.

unfortunately this idyllic lifestyle will all stop working in December when the congestion charge will start to apply to EVs at an extra £15 a day

I drive into Central London once or twice per week and I see a huge number of rental pedal assist e-bikes there. It seems like the ideal way to get around the city effortlessly and quicker than car or tube in many cases. I had no idea on costs as I don’t need to use them myself. If I was living in the city I would be using them for sure instead of public transport.

I’m hoping they delay the EV congestion charge to encourage more EV sales.

That will just increase your incentive to get an e-Brompton and ride in from outside the congestion zone, surely?

Yeah this might be the approach. I can ride in on a normal bike from there most days as the cc zone isn't actually that big, radius is probably about 3km - my office just happens to be right in the centre of it - finding parking that doesn't cost a bomb will be the challenge since all the car park operators know the drill too.

The more they charge, the further out you park - 30 minutes on the bike every morning is a good way to start the day. Going home you might be glad it's an ebike. If the weather's terrible you can always get a bus or tube with the Brom.

Yeah. Found one not too far out that’s roughly what I pay now.

Also realised I usually get to work before the charging starts at 7AM so if I can be arsed to stay until 6PM I might avoid it anyway leaving the car hidden away from the cameras.

I’d get the train but it costs 3x as much.

sorry, we digress

That's a pretty long day, even if you love it.Probably belongs in the Commuting forum, but I have nothing useful to add.

Here in NYC, the Citi Bike network grows substantially every year. Now about 2/3 of the rides on on their e-bikes. Annual membership is $220. Riding an analog bike is free as long as you dock it before 45 minutes. Once you dock it, you can take it out again for another 45. E-bikes are $0.25 per minute. I think that's a lot, and it's surprising how popular they are. It costs more to ride the ebikes than to ride the subway which is $2.90. But yeah, you're riding in style and with a lot of freedom. The bikes go something like 18 or 19 mph, and I think that's too fast. Inexperienced people, such as tourists, ride them. I'd prefer if they were limited to 14 or 15 mph.

Good point about the speed. I guess the companies operating them are trying to make a compromise for experienced users who want a higher speed. Maybe they could implement a smart speed limiter based on your usage eg. limit new or infrequent users to a lower assist speed. But probably too much hassle. I presume you sign an accident disclaimer when renting them.

I don't remember accident disclaimers. Maybe I signed one. If people buying daily passes sign one, I doubt they read them.

I do like your idea of earning the ability to go faster. Maybe.

I’m sure there would be something to the effect of riding the bike at your own risk. But I’m no lawyer, so don’t know how much liability the bike hire companies have or what insurance is in place, if any.

I have seen riders on these rental e-bikes in London who are obvious beginners, but they don’t seem particularly fast and don’t appear to have throttles, so at least they have to be pedalled.

The UK and the rest of Europe has much stricter regulations about ebikes. Maximum power is low, something like 250 watts, and I think the maximum speed is reasonable. North America is like the Wild West by comparison. 500 watt motors are common. I don't know how fast some of these deliveristas are riding, but definitely more than 25 mph. Also, our culture has a lower regard for the law, and with that, enforcement seems more difficult. We have three classes of ebikes, but they are pretty much only for the law books. The fastest ebikes should not be in the bike lanes, but they are.

The Citi Bike analog bikes weigh about 50 pounds, and the ebikes are about 80 pounds. My spouse weighs only about 110 pounds, so she doesn't like the ebikes. She's afraid of being unable to handle it and toppling it. I see some lightweight people handling them, and I think it's more a matter of balance, but that's another area where she doesn't feel confident. I agree it's good that these things don't have throttles. The deliverista bikes here do. Those folks virtually never pedal.

(Deliverista is a New York (Nueva Yorqueño?) word, and I hope it's obvious that it means person who delivers, derived from barista, meaning a person working at a coffee bar.)

Yes, e-bikes sold in bike shops here in the UK are all 250W pedal assist with no throttle. But I do see a lot of more powerful, throttle e-bikes used by the delivery riders in London. Not the rental bikes though, which look pretty tame by comparison.

There are still loads of petrol scooters in the city too, which are a major nuisance. I have a lot more close encounters with those than any of the e-bikes when driving there.

Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles have the same legal status as regular pedal cycles. They are restricted to 250W continuous output and maximum assisted speed of 25km/h. Historically throttles were allowed, those bikes are still legal, but a modern EAPC is restricted to 6km/h "walk assist". EAPC riders must be over 14 years old.
There are also e-mopeds that are faster/more powerful, these have the same legal status as ICE mopeds so require registration, tax, insurance, MOT, licence, helmet, they are restricted to 45km/h and may not use facilities designated for pedal cycles. e-bikes that don't comply with EAPC regulations fall into this category, so the prosecution of riders tends to be for lack of insurance, for which the automatic penalty is £300 fine, 6 points and seizure of the vehicle.

I agree with most everything you quoted except the sustainability part. Super capacitors are, essentially batteries and use the similar components to perform the electrochemical actions that make them work. Both use materials that cause environmental damages through extraction. Cobalt, nickel, iron, aluminum and steel are used in both. To say that “activated carbon” from biomass has much of an impact is a bit of a stretch. The negative electrode in both can be graphite. They both use similar electrolytes and organic fluids as carriers for those electolytes. Their construction isn’t all that different because their function isn’t all that different.

Don’t get me wrong, supercapacitors are very cool bit of technological kit. But so are Li-ion batteries. For that matter any battery chemistry are very cool bits of kit. Even lead acid is cool and has its place.

LiFePo4 doesn't use nickel or cobalt, and while it has lower energy density (60%?) than other lithium ion cells that do use those metals, it loses less capacity over more cycles, so coulombs delivered over their useful lifetimes may be similar? (I just thought of that, didn't check it.)

From what I can find, iron electrodes make the battery a little more stable and easier to manage from the standpoint of energy in/energy out. However, the battery is still bit of an environmental problem especially if the battery catches fire. The LIFePo4 batteries use a fluorinated phosphate compound as the electrolyte. Fluorine compounds can burn to hydrogen fluoride which is extremely toxic. It interferes with the calcium in our bodies and can cause the heart to not regulate properly up to and including stoppage. That's why firefighters are now wearing full protective gear on a battery fire and often letting them burn.