I would NEVER use simple green on anything bicycle ! Most certainly NOT on a chain !

Note that KMC didn't say soap or detergent. Simple Green or any soap/detergent will need to be washed off thoroughly. That means water getting into the places you don't want it to be. And Simple Green has been accused of causing hydrogen embrittlement in chains.

Don't you have any kind of petroleum lube around your home. Even motor oil will saturate a shop rag and let you get the lube off the sides of the chain that is annoying you. Or mineral spirits, or WD-40 or many other things.

If you are going to wax your chain, then simply wiping off the sides of the chain is not the only thing you need to do. But there are several ways to skin that cat too.

No but TriFlow would be classified as a “light, thin oil” as compared to, say, Phil Tenacious oil which has a much higher viscosity. Bicycle chains don’t need a thick viscous oil…or much lubrication at all, for that matter)

That’s not what the quote you posted says. It says

No mention of PTFE. Nor does TriFlow have that much PTFE in it. Nor is any polytetrafluoroethylene dissolved in any thing that contains it. PTFE is a polymer that is unreactive with just about anything in the world. You can tear the molecule apart with some pretty nasty conditions. It will react with molten alkali metals like sodium and potassium and there are some magnesium based materials that will destroy it but none of those are likely to be encountered…even in a laboratory.

The PTFE in TriFlow, or in anything else, is there as small unreactive particles. The particles slip along each other but they aren’t in any lubricant that claims to contain them in a very high concentrations. The PTFE certainly isn’t the majority of the material in TriFlow. It is largely oil…about 50%…and solvent…also about 50%…with some amyl acetate added for that highly recognizable odor of bananas.

That’s kind of what I said. If the point is to just clean the outside, TriFlow would work as well, as would WD-40. Mineral spirits works ever better without leaving behind an oil

I remove it (completely) because the factory wax can get black and messy. I then drip wax with White Lightning and don’t need to clean it again until the chain is worn out.

The original PTFE loaded lube. Whence cometh WhiteLightning and a whole buncha others.



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PTEF isn't for the ecofriendly crowd. And it's not really that great of a addition to any chain lube wax or otherwise. IMO.

Squirt claims to be PFAS free and has worked very well for me when I was using drip on lubes. And it's what the majority of my 8000 plus mile 11 speed chain was lubed with.

Kroil is available at my Menards. Not cheap, but my go to and I work on stuff like this.

PTFE, please. But that is a misreading of what the whole perfluoroalkyl substances kerfuffleage is about. Perfluoro refers to the replacement of all the hydrogens in an alkane with fluorine. There are certain perfluoro materials that are dangerous and toxic but there are other perfluoro materials that aren’t, just as will all chemicals. The ones that are toxic are the ones that have some kind of functional group on the molecule that can react with other materials.

Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) has zero detrimental environmental impact because it is completely inert as I detailed above. It can’t be digested. It can’t be incorporated into a biological system because it can’t be broken down nor will it react with any biological system. It has no functionality on the chain of the molecule that can react with anything. It just exists and will exist for an eternity but it will be benign for that entire eternity.

I question the efficacy of PTFE in lubricants not because of environmental problems but because it is just a particle in a medium. In a wax medium, it might stay in place but in an oil medium it is going to flow around and not really do too much. It likely isn’t doing too much in wax either. It’s mostly there as a marketing tool.

Squirt is using a bit of PFAS washing there. There would be no need for any PFAS in Squirt. However that doesn’t get Squirt off the hook. Because Squirt is using water to apply a hydrophobic wax (water hating) to the chain, it has to use chemicals that have short term bioreactivity to do so. Squirt contains ethylene glycol (antifreeze) and morpholine (gives it that vague fish odor) in addition to other undisclosed surfactants to do the job. Ethylene glycol goes through the Kreb cycle (how mammals use food for energy) and metabolizes to oxalic acid which can precipitate out of the blood in the kidneys, resulting in renal failure. It doesn’t have a lot in it but ethylene glycol is far more reactive than any PFAS.

Morpholine is a flammable liquid and is highly corrosive to skin and eyes. Under certain conditions, it can form N-Nitrosomorpholine which is mutagenic and carcinogenic. Nitrites are needed for that but we humans use a lot of nitrites.

Don’t take this as being alarmist but only as information about how chemicals can have unintended consequences. A lot of the PFAS stories out there are alarmist because they don’t differentiate between problematic PFAS and nonproblematic PFAS. People hear the term and assume that all perfluoronated compounds are bad. Some are, some aren’t.

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The loaded LSA was the only answer to the crap design of the M16 in SEA. It also is demonstrably effective in triggers and most automatic weapons. Tiny percentages in bike oil may certainly be less so. I've never seen or heard of any definitive tests. If the LSA was vacuumed into a chain it would be interesting to see the comparison with oil.

Actually I don't really care 😉 Like I mentioned before, Blaster works for me

That brought memory's back!
I am sure Maddog you know, but for others it is also very good at finding a vacuum leak in the carb manifolds. If you have a lumpy tick-over spray around the place of suspected leak and if the revs go up the engine has pulled it in through the fracture.

Ever strap a petrol tank to a cement mixer with nuts and bolts or a chain inside to clean the inside? LOL.

i just pick 'em up and start shaking them for an hour or so.... the last tank i cleaned was from my van... it was a bit heavy compared to an M/C tank.
the Kreem Kit use is always fun... trying to evenly distribute the lining goo gets tedious, and tests my iso-strength well...

the cement mixer is a good idea, as is using a loose chain.... the screws/bolts tend to have lots of sharp edges that help chip loose rust and varnish, especially in the tight corners.... the chain would help with impacts as the mixer rotated... and be would easier to get out... there's always a few loose screws that need extracted with a magnet.

i just pick 'em up and start shaking them for an hour or so.... the last tank i cleaned was from my van... it was a bit heavy compared to an M/C tank.
the Kreem Kit use is always fun... trying to evenly distribute the lining goo gets tedious, and tests my iso-strength well...

the cement mixer is a good idea, as is using a loose chain.... the screws/bolts tend to have lots of sharp edges that help chip loose rust and varnish, especially in the tight corners.... the chain would help with impacts as the mixer rotated... and be would easier to get out... there's always a few loose screws that need extracted with a magnet.

i've watched amateurs spend hundreds of dollars replacing every part they suspect might cause a misfire situation, then a squirt of WD or carb cleaner/brake cleaner/etc locates a massive air leak, solved by a five dollar gasket and some silicone, or a few feet of vacuum hose..

3 in 1 is a light bodied oil.

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Simple Green is the new WD-40! The product some people love to hate! Personally, I'm a fan of both! Can't say I'm a fan of water based cleaners for heavily greasy/oily cleaning, though. I prefer to start with mineral spirits, or at least some citrus based cleaner solvent. Move to water based after most of the grunge is gone.

And hydrogen embrittlement from soaking a chain in Simple Green? It this what some are worrying about these days?

In another similar thread, I thought you said that while PTFE was inert, the manufacturing process for it is pretty harmful.

Like if you have a bottle of lube with PTFE, don't sweat it, but when it's time to replace it, get one without.

Lots of materials have harmful manufacturing processes. That doesn’t mean the end product is harmful. Brake pads and tires, for example, use precursors that are highly toxic. The end product isn’t…or isn’t very toxic.