seres

I’ve searched the archives, but can’t find any posts referencing this question. So I’ll post it here….

I’m going to buy a new Ti frame. Possibly Litespeed, or Seven, or maybe Habanero….no decision yet. Most seem to offer threadless headsets. In the past I’ve had bikes with threaded headsets, and bikes with threadless headsets, and have rebuilt both types. But I’ve never used or rebuilt an integreated headset. The integrated headsets look, to me at least, easier to maintain and rebuild. There are some great deals on the 05 model Litespeeds with integrated headsets, but I understand the 06 versions are going to use threadless. Any ideas as to what the reasoning is? Is it a cost-cutting measure, or are the integrated headsets not performing as well? From the point of view of rebuilding and maintaining it, is there is any reason to choose threadless over integrated? If you’ve had experience with both, especially rebuilding or maintaining, please post opinions.

genericbikedude

Integrated headsets save you the weight of a headset cup. If the races ever go bad (not that they would likely do so with cartridge bearings), you're frame is toast. Threadless is better.

phantomcow2

I dislike integrated. Thats the single complaint I have about my homegrown, is that it takes some weird "ICBM" cane creek thing, integrated. THe bearings press right into the frame, I really dont like this concept. So if the races are not properly machined, your screwed. Its easier to destroy the frame. I miss threadless headsets, the cups are the parts that will be destroyed if anything. Replacing a cup is cheaper than a frame.
The only somewhat integrated system I like is Zero stack, which uses cups but still places the bearings and all inside of the frame.

Rev.Chuck

Integrated and threadless, for most purposes are about the the same. They both use a set of bearings that are properly tensioned by a cap at the top of the stem. Threaded headsets are the big diference. They use a threaded fork steerer and threaded race and lock nut to adjust the bearing tension.

For the the integrated/threadless arguement. Tough call. The true integrated has fewer parts, but if you should let it get loose you can mess up your head tube. Most integrated have a cup and realy work just like a conventional threadless but the cup sits inside the tube rather than on top.

Seriously. Buy the frame you like best and don't worry about it to much. I have bikes with all three and they all work fine.

Cycling Giraffe

I wouldn't worry too much about the integrated/non-intergrated issue. Some people make a big deal about the headtube possibly getting screwed up in an integrated setup, but I have seen surprisingly few people complain of this defect. I have, however, seen people whose headtubes have been ruined by incompetent mechanics pressing/removing races improperly. I have a Lightspeed Arenberg with a cane creek integrated and its been fine. I also have a De Rosa Dual with a Campy hiddenset, and that has been fine too. My only letdown is that I don't get the bling bling value of having a King headset.

Rev.Chuck

And would they be the mechanics like the ones that post here all the time telling you to not whack your hedset in or out with screwdriver and hammer? Even the less competent shops I have visited have the proper tools for such work. They may not know how to use them. But it beats a guy with a claw hammer and a twobyfour.

In my years I have never seen a screwed head tube by a pro. Seens lots of amatuers tear up stuff, even things you would not think they could mess up.

doco

here is an article for you, I know king has a product to sell, so he is biased but I have always spent a little more for his headsets and never had a problem........

https://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_he...explain_1.html

sydney

Trust me,cuz I been there.A nose picking hack with the right tools is alot more dangerous than an a guy that knows what he is doing with a hammer and 2x4.

af895

Very true.

"It ain't the tool. It's how you swing it."

seres

Thanks doco!

fmw

I own bikes both with standard threadless headsets and integrated (also threadless) headsets. The integrated system makes a lot of sense to me. They are lighter, far easier to install and take apart and bearing replacement is a snap. You can assemble or disassemble an integrated headset (except for the crown race) with just a hex wrench. Somebody above said they didn't the system because the bearings are pressed into the frame. That's not true. They aren't pressed at all. The cartridge bearings are simply placed in the widened areas in the head tube. It is regular headset cups that are pressed into the frame. I pressed a Campy threadless headset as recently as today.

The two bikes I own with integrated headsets work and feel just like regular headsets. They have never been a problem nor have I ever spoken with anybody that has had a problem with them. A lot of people fear problems but the problems simply haven't materialized. I certainly wouldn't reject a frame because of integrated headsets.

Rev.Chuck

fmw, some makers like Giant use an integrated cup. The headset is integrated, it is within the headtube but there is still a seperate cup that presses into the headtube. There are also the companies that have the type that have just a bearing pressed into the headtube Like Pinarello(they use a proprietary bearing and it does have to be pressed in)

Nessism

I've heard of people that have had problems with Litespeed's integrated headsets. The problems come in when the bearings aren't parallel to one another; it causes the bearings to be either too tight or sloppy. Fortunately, Litespeed's intergated frames use a pressed-in race that the bearings ride on so the frames are repairable. Unfortunately, the frame must be sent back to Litespeed for the repair.

I wouldn't be concern buying a new integrated headset Litespeed, but I'd be careful purchasing one without a warranty.

Ed

Brian

Just because you happen to be a nose picking hack doesn't give you the right to generalize. I'm sure it's much easier to mess things up with a hammer and 2x4 than it would be with the proper tools. That said, a guy that really knows what he's doing wouldn't be banging on a bike without the correct tools for the job.

There is no way one consumer could have experienced as many problems as you seem to have first-hand knowledge of. This leads me to the obvious conclusion that you are warning readers here to avoid the shop foolish enough to employ a younger version of yourself.

sydney

You are just more full of it than usual today.

Brian

Full of what?

The truth? Yes, I've seen the light, and figured you out.

sydney

And this BW isn't generalizing...lol...

bostontrevor

Two things.

1. People are confusing internal with integrated. The integrated headset uses the head tube itself as a bearing race while the internal has cups that are pressed into the interior of the head tube. The Zero Stack is an example of an internal headset. Frames built for internal HS's tend to feature more dramatic flaring of the head tube in order to accommodate both the bearings and the cups.

2. While I believe it to be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, the real-world testing of internal/integrated headsets suggest that there's nothing to really be afraid of. There is a dizzying array of standards, though. Personally, I would steer clear, all else being equal. I wouldn't make it my sole purchasinge criteria though.

Then again, I only have one bike that even has a threadless headset and I'm about to sell that.

Brian

You seem to generalize about bike shop mechanics just a bit too much. If anything, they're usually quite competent.

Raiyn

How'd you miss this one?
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...9&page=1&pp=30

Sentinal5

I say go threadless over intergrated. Threadless is the closest thing to a headset standard out there. What happens when Lightspeed changes there headtube shape and decide to use a different bearing? You can walk into any shop and get a threadless headset from $30 on up. Can you walk in and get the bearings you need? Go threadless, get a King headset and never worry about it again.......ever.

seres

I dunno..... searched too quick I guess..... and that other thread was a good and lively one. Thanks everyone..... that previous thread and this one gives me a lot to think about.